Satsuki azalea out of my depth

The stripe occured inside the petal. It just means that the tissue that gave rise to the petal has the potential to generate stripes. These may be very common or very rare. If the stripe is very rate, there is no way to get the rest of the plant to repeat that stripe next year.

It seems that the potential to generate stripes is quite variable. It may be that one branch prodices stripes more often than another branch. And one new branches that came from that one very likely to produce stripes will be similar. Thhis behavior doesn't go back inside the plant and towards other branches. It just follows the growth pattern/cell division.
 
Nice.

That’s to be expected, based upon the multi patterned design. Might want to mark this branch so you can keep track of this for future pruning as this area is dominant colored.

Cheers
DSD sends
 
Thank you @Deep Sea Diver

This is what I'm trying to get my head round!

do you mean so as not to cut the branch off entirely? (At the trunk)

Or only cut back to the sub branch

Or not to prune at all?

Also any suggestions what to use to mark the branch?
 
It is just one flower, so no real need to mark that branch.

If there's only red flowers on a branch, that branch won't produce any other flower patterns. So if flower colour balance is a concern, you may want to prune that branch back to tissue that can still generate all flower patterns.
I would say that having an all red branch at the base is actually pretty good. Better than having everything be white, except the apex.
But, you'd prefer your most important branch to to show diversity of flower colours.
It all depends on your preference, the bonsai design in general, the way the flower colours turn out, etc.
But if you don't mark it, and you don't have a mental note of how the tree looked while in flower when you prune it in say early spring next year, you wouldn't be able to consider the flower colour.
Making a picture can be just as helpful as marking the branch.
 
The goal, as @Glaucus mentioned, is to document the pattern of the different colored flowers in the canopy

Lore goes something like…. the darker colors should be at or near the bottom to represent the ground, lightest on top represent the clouds in the sky and multi patterned mixed about the tree for the rest of the sky. And there are approximate proportions of each which I can’t recall at their time.

An issue, as discussed previously, occurs when whole red patterned (ground color) branches full of these dominant flowers begin to predominate the entire tree.

As a result one has to keep an eye out for the yearly pattern… and prune carefully to take out reds that are invading the other portions of the canopy.

If done wisely only little changes need to be made. If neglected, bigger pruning cuts need to be done … or grafts to reinstate the balance of colors if one wishes to restore the multi patterned variants of the true cultivar.

Cheers
DSD sends.
 
Gave this a haircut today,
20240611_211407.jpg

@Deep Sea Diver I was able to cut back to green this time! (unlike my other lil rhodie) All over apart from the apex.

I read these are basally dominant and care should be taken with the apex so I left it alone, any guidance appreciated.

I may cut back further in places if what I took off was enough to prompt some backbudding, again open to guidance

It was fed between flowering coming to an end and pruning with miracid, humic and kelp.
 
Great work!

From what is shown in the image, do not see a reason not to similarly prune the apex as long as there is green left of each branch tip. If you’d like to be safe, reduce each set of branchlets on each flower site to two branchlets, then reduce each remaining branchet to two leaves.

There is still a lot of clutter around the tree, branches with thick ends that need to be reduced… and the lower big branch that likely would best be removed as per @Glaucus etc…. Which would make the design incredible…. But that process requires a separate post.

For now just do the reductions as discussed and please repost an image from each side.

The tree will also need a longer lasting, base fertilizer, like Biogold or Osmocote Plus. Either will work well, yet use Osmocote Plus 1/4 strength as recommended for pot size for now. Biogold (or similar organic) add full strength now and every 5 weeks and do not remove the old fertilizer for now.

Best
DSD sends
 
Deep Sea Diver said:
Great work!

From what is shown in the image, do not see a reason not to similarly prune the apex as long as there is green left of each branch tip. If you’d like to be safe, reduce each set of branchlets on each flower site to two branchlets, then reduce each remaining branchet to two leaves.

There is still a lot of clutter around the tree, branches with thick ends that need to be reduced… and the lower big branch that likely would best be removed as per @Glaucus etc…. Which would make the design incredible…. But that process requires a separate post.

For now just do the reductions as discussed and please repost an image from each side.

The tree will also need a longer lasting, base fertilizer, like Biogold or Osmocote Plus. Either will work well, yet use Osmocote Plus 1/4 strength as recommended for pot size for now. Biogold (or similar organic) add full strength now and every 5 weeks and do not remove the old fertilizer for now.

Best
DSD sends
Click to expand...

Sorry I’m a little confused

When you prune, are you pruning back only to where growth is forming further back in on a twig? In other words, do you need back budding to prune back to? Or is it that cutting back to hard wood is problematic?

I have one that’s not shaped yet which has some striped flowers that I was thinking of fully defoliating to wire (read: snipping all branches to remove the leaves and hopefully stimulate more budding on the twigs), but I feel like I’ve not quite gotten a firm idea of whether that should ever be done

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood and this has already been answered
 
Thank you for the advice @Deep Sea Diver and thank you so much for the compliment!

I'm a little unsure what you mean and would rather be 100% than get it wrong!

do you mean go to 2 leaves only at the apex or across the whole tree?

The lower green to cut back to on the apex is those 2 left heading branches, if it were a branch i would cut back to the lower one, would you advise the same?

i'm pretty sure I have thinned to 2s across the tree although I plan to double check today!

I'm not sure I can tell the difference between a flower site and a leaf cluster tbh!
 
Last edited:
Across the tree…….

Leaf clusters and flower sites are basically the same thing.

Let’s go through a few basics… just for future information… note there are quite a number of variations and seasonal issues, but won’t go into those.

Here’s a flowers site complete with 5 branchlets. Note healthy, strong flowers can have even more branchlets, weak flowers have less. Some Satsuki like Nikko, can have multiple flowers on one localized area. These have many, many branchlets in the same area. Same basic principles apply.

Here are the basic post flowering pruning strategies. All can be used at once on the same tree if needed.

First there is no pruning at all. This causes the tree to strengthen overall.

Top View of flower site showing branchlets.
IMG_1663.jpeg

Side view.
IMG_1666.jpeg

Flower removed, three branchlets removed. The big ones, smallest, leaving two well placed branchlets
IMG_1667.jpeg

Looking at another flowering site with the flower removed. Three branchlets
IMG_1668.jpeg

Down to two branchlets
IMG_1669.jpeg

Down to two leaves for each branchlet. This method is for trees in the building phase and for young trees.
IMG_1673.jpeg

Here’s a common issue. The remaining branchlets are of different sizes.
IMG_1670.jpeg

Cut to two on the shortest, cut the stem to equal size. Still for building phase. The bare branchlet will sprout leaves in most cultivars. Btw if both are are cut back to just the stems. this is a bulking out, branch building procedure
IMG_1671.jpeg

There is also cutting to the cluster of leaves just below the flower site… (this is the base where the branchlets come from). This is used to maintain shape… can cause back budding.
IMG_1675.jpeg

“Stopping the growth”. aka cutting the branch tip. Stops growth strengthens shoot.
Before. and. After.

FullSizeRender.jpeg FullSizeRender.jpeg

Finally Cutting to bare wood. Used to prevent a tree from aging and spur back budding.
Some cultivars resent this.
IMG_1676.jpeg
Some cultivars will abandon a branch, especially if all the other branches are strong with foliage.
Yet if all branches are pruned hard to leaf clusters or bare stems and a few to bare wood, usually back budding will occur all over the branch.
If all are cutback, especially in spring, often all branches will backbud and restart the tree.

Might want to copy this and save for future reference.

Hope this helps

Cheers
DSD sends
 

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Deep Sea Diver said:
Across the tree…….

Leaf clusters and flower sites are basically the same thing.

Let’s go through a few basics… just for future information… note there are quite a number of variations and seasonal issues, but won’t go into those.

Here’s a flowers site complete with 5 branchlets. Note healthy, strong flowers can have even more branchlets, weak flowers have less. Some Satsuki like Nikko, can have multiple flowers on one localized area. These have many, many branchlets in the same area. Same basic principles apply.

Here are the basic post flowering pruning strategies. All can be used at once on the same tree if needed.

First there is no pruning at all. This causes the tree to strengthen overall.

Top View of flower site showing branchlets.
View attachment 551811

Side view.
View attachment 551812

Flower removed, three branchlets removed. The big ones, smallest, leaving two well placed branchlets
View attachment 551813

Looking at another flowering site with the flower removed. Three branchlets
View attachment 551814

Down to two branchlets
View attachment 551815

Down to two leaves for each branchlet. This method is for trees in the building phase and for young trees.
View attachment 551819

Here’s a common issue. The remaining branchlets are of different sizes.
View attachment 551816

Cut to two on the shortest, cut the stem to equal size. Still for building phase. The bare branchlet will sprout leaves in most cultivars. Btw if both are are cut back to just the stems. this is a bulking out, branch building procedure
View attachment 551817

There is also cutting to the cluster of leaves just below the flower site… (this is the base where the branchlets come from). This is used to maintain shape… can cause back budding.
View attachment 551824

“Stopping the growth”. aka cutting the branch tip. Stops growth strengthens shoot.
Before. and. After.

View attachment 551826 View attachment 551827

Finally Cutting to bare wood. Used to prevent a tree from aging and spur back budding.
Some cultivars resent this.
View attachment 551825
Some cultivars will abandon a branch, especially if all the other branches are strong with foliage.
Yet if all branches are pruned hard to leaf clusters or bare stems and a few to bare wood, usually back budding will occur all over the branch.
If all are cutback, especially in spring, often all branches will backbud and restart the tree.

Might want to copy this and save for future reference.

Hope this helps

Cheers
DSD sends
Click to expand...

Bookmarked - very helpful
 
RoadManDenDron said:
@Deep Sea Diver
Here are the pics and thinned down to 2s and 2s View attachment 552098View attachment 552099View attachment 552100View attachment 552101
Click to expand...

Great, please feed with a base fertilizer as discussed and a liquid in two weeks and continue at this interval. Ensure morning sun and afternoon shade.

Please avoid over fertilizing. When in doubt, don’t.

If temperatures get above 30C avoid liquid fertilizer and mist in AM besides water. Above 33C more shade.

Love this see the progress.

Cheers
DSD sends
 
@Deep Sea Diver as always thank you so much for your help with this, I am much more confident in the wellbeing of this tree compared to the chop right back and hope for the best approach I had planned!

I've noticed you talking of fancy Japanese names for these pruning techniques on other threads do you know what this one would be? Is there a resource I can see the different names?

I've noticed my little rhodie has budded out all over, do i want to let them all grow for energy's sake or knock off/ cut back to any that are suitable for energy management?
 
You are most welcome.

. @Glaucus knows these names and posted these., He can help you with these.

Actually I do not use the Japanese names for different cutbacks. It’s not important to know this data imho, what is most important is knowing the techniques and reasons to use these well. After this to apply these in multiple situations on different trees. Finally to learn and apply the variations.

Gosh, have done an awful lot of posting recently and can’t recall specifics, Wasn’t the rhody on another thread? In any case please post an image of the rhody there. If it’s not on a thread, please post it here.

Cheers
DSD sends
 
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