Ryan Neil's Latest Repotting Video

[leatherback]

when the tree has recovered and developed finer roots close to the trunk?

In fieldsoil, chances are good this will not happen. I have seen Yews that were not cleaned on the inside, and only on the cut ends where new roots. The core was as devoid of feeder roots as the day it was pulled from a field.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Forgot to reference the video the chap above was talking about. these ideas are not special techniques, just different ways of doing things, 'experimenting' this is what you do when you become hands on, you learn all this stuff by yourself, you make your own rules. you repot whenever you want and the tree doesnt even realise it was repotted!!

I think my literati Tsuga might be a good candidate for a top down approach this Spring. I’m trying to figure out a way to attempt, but put it back in the same nursery pot it has been in. The silt it is in currently is so fine, I’m thinking I could cut a large hole in the side of the pot and rinse my way down for a relatively gently bare rooting. And then mesh over the hole when I am done. Or cut down the pot and mesh it all the way around the friable aggregate?

The wheels are turning; It is an emergency repot as I’m 50/50 it will make it through Spring if I do nothing. The tree is pretty weak.

 

[Potawatomi13]

In the case of field soil, I would think that would hold too much water too close to the roots. Apparently it doesn’t, but I still don’t see how it does any good to remove some of the field soil if you’re leaving some of it in place. You’ll either water half the roots too much or half not enough.

Why not plant in 100% field soil in a very deep pot at collection, and then replace all the soil at once upon transfer to a shallow pot when the tree has recovered and developed finer roots close to the trunk?

Observe Tom Fincels top down technique. This seems to solve problem. Upper roots repotted in clean substrate to develop/ bottom roots relatively undisturbed for continued growth/w established roots. When repot is done after a couple years upper roots reestablished in clean substrate/bottom roots removed completely for shallower repot. Seems pretty good technique with no unbalanced drainage/watering problems. As some/many say "traditional" half bare root idea seems stupid lazy way of doing.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I think my literati Tsuga might be a good candidate for a top down approach this Spring. I’m trying to figure out a way to attempt, but put it back in the same nursery pot it has been in. The silt it is in currently is so fine, I’m thinking I could cut a large hole in the side of the pot and rinse my way down for a relatively gently bare rooting. And then mesh over the hole when I am done. Or cut down the pot and mesh it all the way around the friable aggregate?

The wheels are turning; It is an emergency repot as I’m 50/50 it will make it through Spring if I do nothing. The tree is pretty weak.

MANY nurseries throw away nursery pots in dumpster/refuse heap. Ask nursery if you can recycle some. Also can make into shallower pot in advance.

 

[R0b]

In the case of field soil, I would think that would hold too much water too close to the roots. Apparently it doesn’t, but I still don’t see how it does any good to remove some of the field soil if you’re leaving some of it in place. You’ll either water half the roots too much or half not enough.

Why not plant in 100% field soil in a very deep pot at collection, and then replace all the soil at once upon transfer to a shallow pot when the tree has recovered and developed finer roots close to the trunk?

Organic soil compacts over tome and as a result holds more water and less oxygen. In a bonsai container this is even worse due to the shallow pot. Partial removal of the field soil is done to provide room for roots to develop in bonsai soil to transition trees that simply don’t like being bare rooted ever. During this phase watering indeed is more challenging but it might be the only way.

Yes you can can plant in a deep pot with field soil after collection, but it is when the tree is strongest and most severe actions can be taken. If your tree species can tolerate being bare rooted, this is the time to do root work and transition to bonsai soil. For trees that can’t be bare rooted it is still the best to start the process but more gradual. Also field soil is often simply not promoting the fine root growth you want.

True yamadori is an entirely different activity and I wouldn’t want to give any recommendations on that.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Delete

 

[MrFancyPlants]

MANY nurseries throw away nursery pots in dumpster/refuse heap. Ask nursery if you can recycle some. Also can make into shallower pot in advance.

Or maybe a grow bag? I’m getting excited, I think top down could be a good choice for a tree without a lot of good options.
I’m imagining this silt washing away with minimal damage, though it could play out different in reality.
I’m sure it is obvious to most, but an epiphany for me. Different approaches for trees in different situations:
Shin style, change of heart for the tree in bonsai pot already (2024).



Top down for the tree struggling in a nursery container.


And about time to follow through with the other half of a HBR on this one. I think the HBR was just the right approach for developing material in Anderson flat.

 

[Joe Dupre']

My personal observation is that trees don't necessarily die from "bad" soil. The harm is from too-wet soil for too long. Now, the person tending to the tree has the responsibility to see that doesn't happen. It's definitely more difficult to control the proper watering of a tree in sub-perfect soil, but I think it can be done..............at least for the few months of wait until optimum repotting season. Like I always point out, the beautiful tree you've bought from the nursery has lived its whole life in this so-called "bad" soil. I think the basic problem is trying to go from a deep pot of highly organic nursery or native soil to a shallow bonsai pot in porous bonsai soil in one go. Slow and steady is the rule, if from nursery stock or from yamadori collection.

Partial bare root soil replacement is probably the best route...............no matter which method you use.

 

[Gabler]

In fieldsoil, chances are good this will not happen. I have seen Yews that were not cleaned on the inside, and only on the cut ends where new roots. The core was as devoid of feeder roots as the day it was pulled from a field.

Thanks. Good to know. I have little to no access to conifers, and I therefore almost exclusively collect deciduous trees. I tend to wash the roots clean with a hose at collection.

 

[R0b]

This site gives a very good description of the physics behind drainage in pots and soils.

How to choose the right pot for your plant [Why pot shape & size matters. A lot.] — Greenhouse Studio

Choosing a pot for your plant may seem like it’s only a matter of aesthetics, but the size and shape of your planter along with the soil/potting mix you choose has a direct result on the amount of available water for your plant. If you’re serious about growing your potted plants as successfully as

www.greenhousestudio.co

the important bit

 

[Wills612]

I have a tough time with watering collected confers. Do I water when pumice is dry? Or field soil dry? That’s what I go back and forth on. I dint catch if Ryan touched on that, it seemed there was a question that eluded to it.

 

[Joe Dupre']

I read the most helpful hint. Take a common household sponge, soak it well and wring it out as dry as you can. The moisture that's left is about the point at which your soil needs watering. I would think if any part of the soil gets to that point, it's time to water. You have to figure that there's really not going to be an awful lot of field soil left and I wouldn't think that little soil being a bit too wet would hurt anything. Also the field soil is normally higher up in the pot so the perched water wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Scorpius]

The other issue is picking the correct size pot. An oversized pot can be disastrous.

 

[chicago1980]

I have a tough time with watering collected confers. Do I water when pumice is dry? Or field soil dry? That’s what I go back and forth on. I dint catch if Ryan touched on that, it seemed there was a question that eluded to it.

I generally place the root system as low as possible in the box, and fill with pumice. Then I water the pumice especially considering most of your new root growth is in the pumice and not the organic collected soil.

 

[Gabler]

… the field soil is normally higher up in the pot so the perched water wouldn't be a problem.

If you have two types of soil media, you have two perched water tables. If there’s dense media higher in the pot, then there’s an additional perched water table higher in the pot where the denser media is situated. That’s why adding a “drainage layer” is often a bad idea.

 

[chicago1980]

I have a tough time with watering collected confers. Do I water when pumice is dry? Or field soil dry? That’s what I go back and forth on. I dint catch if Ryan touched on that, it seemed there was a question that eluded to it.

Here is a photo example

 

[BobbyLane]

he actually did touch on when he knows to water, if you watch it again. when the moss top dress is dry is his indicator.
I also tend to use sphag moss as a top dress, when its dry is when I water usually. just one of many uses sphag moss has. very underrated.

 

[Wills612]

Here is a photo example

Pretty much do the same

 

[chicago1980]

Pretty much do the same

Lodgepole? Nice movement

 

[Joe Dupre']

If you have two types of soil media, you have two perched water tables. If there’s dense media higher in the pot, then there’s an additional perched water table higher in the pot where the denser media is situated. That’s why adding a “drainage layer” is often a bad idea.

The way I've heard it explained is the perched water table is a function of gravity and the bottom of the pot. Gravity works less and less on the water as it nears the pot bottom. Since there is no impenetrable boundary between the upper field soil and the lower bonsai soil., gravity and capillary action will cause the water to gradually make it's way to the bottom, albeit a bit slower through the denser, field soil.