Ryan Neil's Latest Repotting Video

[MrFancyPlants]

One think to keep in mind when it comes to shooting down HBR and Anderson Flats is that the material Ryan Neil works with is not in development phase like the material most of us work with. He doesn’t want to HBR because it sets back the timeline for getting the tree show ready.
Most of us mortals don’t need to worry about that, and growing out our trees is more likely to speed development than to set it back.
Take my perspective with a grain of miracle grow, because I am not a paying member, and correct me if I am wrong, but even sacrifice branches are a rarity in the material that RN works on. And, we know that sacrifice branches greatly speed development generally.
I do love to watch the 2nd repotting video, and appreciate the discussion, references and links. Besides quality repotting videos being like bonsai porn for me, I think I have a couple Hemlock that could be candidates for having their Shin developed in the next couple years.

 

[rockm]

Correct the area below the trunk of the tree. He has an entire concept around including which trees are sheen based, it is based on a term and approach used by Kimura, in Japanese it means heart.

Yes, But the "sheen" spelling is misleading. It's pronounced sheen, but typically spelled "Shin"-which is the Japanese word for "Heart" from my understanding. Which makes sense, as the area directly underneath the trunk in collected trees is the oldest and considered by many to be a primary engine for growth. Disturbing it too much, according to some(and I suspect this has plenty to do with the species being worked on) can be a problem.

Typically, working the "shin" under old conifers and satsuki azaleas has to be less intense than the outer root zones.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Forgot to reference the video the chap above was talking about. these ideas are not special techniques, just different ways of doing things, 'experimenting' this is what you do when you become hands on, you learn all this stuff by yourself, you make your own rules. you repot whenever you want and the tree doesnt even realise it was repotted!!

Thank you for posting. Tom is member of local club and friend.

 

[eugenev2]

So i've been hearing a lot about peoples different approaches to working the roots and some say are adamant it's not the same a half bare rooting. But could someone please explain to me how,
if you remove the sand from the one half of the root ball as in circle 1 one year and then the other half the next repotting,
picture two (assume proportions are 50/50), removing outside circle one year and then inner circle the next repotting
pciture 3 the more cutting the cake approach, where either top half or bottom half is removed
Are they not just all half bare roots simply starting at different locations?

 

[chicago1980]

So i've been hearing a lot about peoples different approaches to working the roots and some say are adamant it's not the same a half bare rooting. But could someone please explain to me how,
if you remove the sand from the one half of the root ball as in circle 1 one year and then the other half the next repotting,
picture two (assume proportions are 50/50), removing outside circle one year and then inner circle the next repotting
pciture 3 the more cutting the cake approach, where either top half or bottom half is removed
Are they not just all half bare roots simply starting at different locations?

View attachment 471927

Approach 1 and 3 in the process remove the shin area.

Also, Ryan is not focused on removing 50%, his is focused on removing greatest limitations, organic soil, and putting into a bonsai pot, while leaving an area untouched during the repot.

I agree there are more similarities than differences in both approaches.

 

[eugenev2]

Approach 1 and 3 in the process remove the shin area.

Also, Ryan is not focused on removing 50%, his is focused on removing greatest limitations, organic soil, and putting into a bonsai pot, while leaving an area untouched during the repot.

I agree there are more similarities than differences in both approaches.

But is there horticulturally/container growing wise a difference between any of the approaches? Ie some benefit one has over the other?
Because will you not eventually have similar issues (if left long enough) with all of the approaches as certain sections drain better than other sections? The one section becomes more compacted than the other.

 

[BobbyLane]

Even when I cover the feet, there’s no way that tree is standing on its own. There’s gotta be buckshot mixed into the substrate.

It was actually standing in that position by itself before he put it in the pot.
actually, no it wasnt, it was being propped up by a block of wood

tbf tho, i think the prominent anchor root plays a big role in the stability of the image. my eye is drawn to the trunk base and that powerful right side first and not to the pot. guess we all see the image differently tho

 

[Gabler]

It was actually standing in that position by itself before he put it in the pot.
actually, no it wasnt, it was being propped up by a block of wood

tbf tho, i think the prominent anchor root plays a big role in the stability of the image. my eye is drawn to the trunk base and that powerful right side first and not to the pot. guess we all see the image differently tho

I’m not talking aesthetics. I’m talking physics. How is that tree standing? Even assuming the branches and foliage mass are lighter than they look, the tree would obviously fall over under a dusting of snow.

 

[Sansokuu]

What is even the scientific reason for leaving half field soil? I have heard of telperion trees dying from using this technique because the field soil was so poor - i am guessing likely because of this phenomena, the perched water table problem.

Does Gravel in Pots and Containers Increase Drainage? - Garden Myths

Why you should not add stones or gravel in the bottom of potted plants. They don't increase drainage and may make it harder for plants to grow.

www.gardenmyths.com

 

[Sansokuu]

Yes, But the "sheen" spelling is misleading. It's pronounced sheen, but typically spelled "Shin"-which is the Japanese word for "Heart" from my understanding.

Branching from this, the word is actually Chinese derived. Xīn is heart/core/center in mandarin and many other words are composed from it. Growing up there were a lot of words in mandarin or taiwanese that simply had no direct word translation, Xīn is much more than ‘heart’ as it also applies to feelings (小心 for example means ‘be careful’ but it looks like it is read as ‘little heart’).

https://academicjournals.org/journal/JLC/article-full-text-pdf/22274EC2067#:~:text=Xin%20心%20(pronounced%20hsin)%20is,intention%3B%20centre.

https://blogs.transparent.com/chinese/all-about-the-chinese-word-for-heart-心-xin/

And back to bonsai..

 

[rockm]

FWIW, I purge ALL soil from deciduous trees on collection or repotting, typically with water from a hose. Then I reduce roots as needed. In the case of some deciduous trees at collection, there may not be many secondary or tertiary roots to hold onto soil.

The preservation of some field soil is typical of conifer collection and repotting. Conifers tend to not like extensive root work all at once.

 

[BobbyLane]

I’m not talking aesthetics. I’m talking physics. How is that tree standing? Even assuming the branches and foliage mass are lighter than they look, the tree would obviously fall over under a dusting of snow.

because the heavy anchoring roots have firmly established themselves . thats the story im getting.

 

[Maiden69]

Branching from this, the word is actually Chinese derived.

To be honest most of the Japanese and in Korean Hancha dating before 100 BC derived from Chinese characters. I thought Traditional Japanese kanji and Traditional Chinese characters were the same and started differentiating once the simplified styles were implemented? I spent a year in Korea and one of my Korean friends was studying Japanese and Chinese language, he taught me to read and write Korean in like 20 minutes... had no idea what I was saying but I was able to pronounce "very good" according to him.

Found this also

Descendants[edit]​

Sino-Xenic (心):

• → Japanese: 心しん (shin)
• → Korean: 심(心) (sim) -
• → Vietnamese: tâm (心)

From the lecture Ryan gave on Shin, when you do the initial move from native soil into inorganic you can leave it, but it needs to be addressed on the next repot. You don't want that soil to rot and hurt the tree. I have watched all his JBP repotting and in one of the Telperion trees the health started to decline, and he suspected it was the native soil left from the first repot. The roots on the new soil were great, but there were areas completely void of roots in the shin.

On JAN 7 he did a 3hr lecture/Q&A based entirely on Shin.

The next one is tomorrow, about "Vortex" - Build your skills as we dig deep into the bonsai vortex—a concept, a thought process, and an understanding of how to evolve raw material and transform it into a show-worthy bonsai tree.

 

[leatherback]

because the heavy anchoring roots have firmly established themselves . thats the story im getting.

Would the tree + pot not just topple?
It looks precarious to my eye

 

[BobbyLane]

Would the tree + pot not just topple?
It looks precarious to my eye

I see what you guys are saying, but I only notice that when I focus on the pot. for me, the pot is so non-descript that I barely notice its even there. All im seeing is tree and trunk base. For sure at some point in its life it will probably go into something more grounded, maybe wider, a rocky slab even. The other thing is, this will probably be for sale at some point and my guess is that a lot of these heavily downsized pots, help massively in making them more manageable at sale time for shipping/transporting etc

 

[Maiden69]

I don't really see a concern with the size of the pot. The pot is the same that it was potted before, and it was able to stand on its own roots without the pot before the root work was done. Once he removed all the native soil from the shin he hard to use a piece of wood to hold it up.


Before

 

[BobbyLane]

I don't really see a concern with the size of the pot. The pot is the same that it was potted before, and it was able to stand on its own roots without the pot before the root work was done. Once he removed all the native soil from the shin he hard to use a piece of wood to hold it up.


Before
View attachment 471965

View attachment 471969

View attachment 471964


View attachment 471967


View attachment 471966

I thought I saw it standing without the block but couldnt find the shot when I went back lol I was rushing out when I responded to Gabler earlier.

 

[BobbyLane]

To be honest most of the Japanese and in Korean Hancha dating before 100 BC derived from Chinese characters. I thought Traditional Japanese kanji and Traditional Chinese characters were the same and started differentiating once the simplified styles were implemented? I spent a year in Korea and one of my Korean friends was studying Japanese and Chinese language, he taught me to read and write Korean in like 20 minutes... had no idea what I was saying but I was able to pronounce "very good" according to him.

Found this also

Descendants[edit]​

Sino-Xenic (心):

• → Japanese: 心しん (shin)
• → Korean: 심(心) (sim) -
• → Vietnamese: tâm (心)

From the lecture Ryan gave on Shin, when you do the initial move from native soil into inorganic you can leave it, but it needs to be addressed on the next repot. You don't want that soil to rot and hurt the tree. I have watched all his JBP repotting and in one of the Telperion trees the health started to decline, and he suspected it was the native soil left from the first repot. The roots on the new soil were great, but there were areas completely void of roots in the shin.

On JAN 7 he did a 3hr lecture/Q&A based entirely on Shin.

The next one is tomorrow, about "Vortex" - Build your skills as we dig deep into the bonsai vortex—a concept, a thought process, and an understanding of how to evolve raw material and transform it into a show-worthy bonsai tree.

Im jealous, that sounds like fun.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

Why would one NOT leave some soil a bit close to the nebari? Pick it out close sure, but not ALL the soil gone.
Field or repot old bonsai mix that's still adhering fairly close to the nebari I would think would do no harm and in fact give some more purchase to the tree anchor wire.
Fresh soil dribbled in where you take out what's all crummy is what I do. Providing of course that there are some decent roots poking out that can be cut or trimmed.

 

[Gabler]

Why would one NOT leave some soil a bit close to the nebari? Pick it out close sure, but not ALL the soil gone.
Field or repot old bonsai mix that's still adhering fairly close to the nebari I would think would do no harm and in fact give some more purchase to the tree anchor wire.
Fresh soil dribbled in where you take out what's all crummy is what I do. Providing of course that there are some decent roots poking out that can be cut or trimmed.

In the case of field soil, I would think that would hold too much water too close to the roots. Apparently it doesn’t, but I still don’t see how it does any good to remove some of the field soil if you’re leaving some of it in place. You’ll either water half the roots too much or half not enough.

Why not plant in 100% field soil in a very deep pot at collection, and then replace all the soil at once upon transfer to a shallow pot when the tree has recovered and developed finer roots close to the trunk?