Rookies sorting out roots Ebihara don’t look!

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nicely done.

Built my first couple of training pots this week.Seems mine have less drainage than some other pots but maybe also less future repot woes.

Interesting point.

When designing the deck of these boxes , I weighed two competing “goods” …drainage and box integrity.

My goal was to have similar drainage to an Anderson flat, while making the box as light yet sturdy as possible for the least amount of money.

Achieving as close to Anderson flat like drainage, with a sturdy, slimmed down profile and ease in assembly/disassembly became the key objectives.

Ease in tree removal didn’t make my list as a key item. Perhaps it should have been given more consideration… we will know for sure in a couple years!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[clem]

Built my first couple of training pots this week.Seems mine have less drainage than some other pots but maybe also less future repot woes.


View attachment 481203

On my new wood boxes, there is less openings than yours, but no problem with drainage at all. I use no screen, just wood and at the bottom of the box, i let just 2-3 milimeter of space between the wooden planks in order to not let the akadama or pumice particles (3-6mm) fall down (pass through) ->



This wooden box is very large, maybe too large, but it is possible to build smaller ones of course ^^

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Nice likely’ll work well. There is more then one way to skin a cat.

The other boxes I made a couple years ago we decided to just bore big holes and install screws.… and added handles as a go faster option! Built for big clumps.

….

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[clem]

Very nice wood boxes. Why did you change your boxes bottom now ? (screen at the bottom of your new boxes instead of wood + holes)
Is the garden with the big greenhouse yours ? are you a pro (Bonsai pro /nurseryman) ?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Very nice wood boxes. Why did you change your boxes bottom now ? (screen at the bottom of your new boxes instead of wood + holes)

Good question. Didn’t like the aeration of the original design. So I was trying to emulate an Anderson flat, maxxing out the aeration factor while creating a box with stability.

Anderson Flats are way too large for what I was trying to do, grow out the little trees in a properly sized box.
Anderson flat.

Here are three slightly different designs Scott Eisner, made in Portland.

Is the garden with the big greenhouse yours ? are you a pro (Bonsai pro /nurseryman) ?

No, it was a friends greenhouse in the valley who runs a grow operation. Ours are very much smaller.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi,
If it is of help, I make a variety of box sizes from 6 inch to 12 inch square ( plus custom sizes for my forests). I use insect netting and a few slats on the bottom to hold media and raise the boxes of the concrete or benches etc. I still have most of my boxes still in use 4 years later (treated pine). Also when repotting I take one side off the box, and use a crappy pruning saw to slice the roots off the mesh. 1 or 2 times out by of 50 odd I mangle the mesh and simply rubbish to broken mesh and staple new as it was. Screws, wood, staples and put together reasonably fast.
Charles.

 

[pandacular]

Hey DSD, curious if size was the only distinction between a flat and a grow box that was relevant to your needs. If they made Anderson flats in the size you needed, would you have gone with those? Regarding size, how close should I aim to keep the size of the training container to the size of the final pot?

I'm also curious in your thoughts on the main drivers of what make grow boxes/flats successful for tree growth.

 

[Cajunrider]

Hey DSD, curious if size was the only distinction between a flat and a grow box that was relevant to your needs. If they made Anderson flats in the size you needed, would you have gone with those? Regarding size, how close should I aim to keep the size of the training container to the size of the final pot?

I'm also curious in your thoughts on the main drivers of what make grow boxes/flats successful for tree growth.

1. The grow boxes and flats make it easy to grow flat root base for bonsai.
2. Tie downs for branch shaping are easy to do with grow boxes.
3. Grow boxes provide excellent protection for temperature swing, keeping temperatures at the roots stable.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

If they made Anderson flats in the size you needed, would you have gone with those?

Good question. Of course if Anderson flats were available in sizes that would be convenient, that might be a go to for some hobbyists. In this case there aren’t any in the sizes needed.

In practice Anderson flats can be fragile, especially in the cold. It’s quite common to see used flats with chipped or broken sides.

Properly constructed wood boxes aren’t so fragile, but these can rot pretty fast depending on the surface they are are placed on. The ones built at PBM are on benches and are well into their third year now and are in good shape.

Anderson flats don’t breathe on the sides like wood boxes do. This attribute of wood creates a distinct advantage for wood boxes imho.

That said, if one if doesn’t have the equipment and skill to make a wood box, I’d say they should improvise. My favorite is to use cut down nursery pots with holes bored in the bottom and sides…but we’ve access here to many different sizes of these pots.

Regarding size, how close should I aim to keep the size of the training container to the size of the final pot?

The guide I use is the diameter of the roots when flared out plus a couple inches all around. This allows the roots to grow horizontally for a good distance before meeting the sides and diving into the soil (if on the ground) or wrapping around the sides.

I'm also curious in your thoughts on the main drivers of what make grow boxes/flats successful for tree growth.

@Cajunrider has done a great job of answering this question, so I’ll leave this one alone as I have to board a plane now.

Cheers
John sends

 

[pandacular]

thanks so much for the answer. have a safe flight, and an easy journey home! SeaTac has been crazy this summer (if you're flying into there).

I've done some searches on threads about grow-boxes, but I couldn't find the thread you mentioned with CJR. I have one of his bald cypresses arriving today, and the rot issue is the exact reason I'm avoiding a wooden box for that thirsty beast of a tree.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Update 3.2024

This year we are going to leave the roots alone for JP and Tridents, except to trim off any protruding roots under the boxes. This will keep the nebari of each tree flat.

The top hamper will be adjusted for each tree to correct any previous errors and build a superstructure. So biting the bullet.

About 1/3 have mistakes made early on which will require a cut down to the point we are either only on t(e second level up, or .cut back all the way to two small branches. This isa hard lesson to learn, but also the price of early ignorance and good horticulture.

Fist a laggard Pacific Fire Vine Maple was discovered that needed to be boxed up.

Tree before cut down



Adjusting the nebari and all boxed up.



On to the others. Trimming the roots off of the metal screening of the box. Some have only a little protruding roots, some more.


Nothing like those found on the test nylon screening!



All boxes cleaned and ready to go back on t( evround!

I

That’s all for now.

Next steps. Near term plan, grow the trees out with top sacrifices. Next spring, work the roots and trim / adjust superstructure.

cheers
DSD sends