River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Wait till they get bigger!
rnlabarnes 6yr JBP Contest Thread Entry
- Thread starter RobertB
- Start date
Stella
Mame
Learned so much following your thread.
I'm just starting working on my 1st pine sapling
I'm just starting working on my 1st pine sapling
RobertB
Chumono
Very overdo for an update here. Its been hard to stay consistent at this. My pines did not do very well overall this year (i think its mostly due to me underwatering in our very hot environment). Im going to really try and put more time into this coming year.
A few Pics. I completely understand that wrapping wire around a pine forcing it to swell and build girth with callus is, i guess controversial, but these were from one of those batches that i left the wire on to long and just decided to try as a feature. I definitely think there is a balance here that could be had for someone who has the time to remove the wire at just the right stage and wrap differently... possibly a way of more controlling initial trunk thickening, shape, etc... and possibly as they keep growing.
The one in the pic below is a tree that popped up in the last few years to be one of my favorites, for now at least.
I cannot get the pics to attach.
A few Pics. I completely understand that wrapping wire around a pine forcing it to swell and build girth with callus is, i guess controversial, but these were from one of those batches that i left the wire on to long and just decided to try as a feature. I definitely think there is a balance here that could be had for someone who has the time to remove the wire at just the right stage and wrap differently... possibly a way of more controlling initial trunk thickening, shape, etc... and possibly as they keep growing.
The one in the pic below is a tree that popped up in the last few years to be one of my favorites, for now at least.
I cannot get the pics to attach.
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RobertB
Chumono
will try again later. anyways. have some pics and more coming soon.
RobertB
Chumono
RobertB
Chumono
Ok. got it working. some more pics of same tree.
RobertB
Chumono
another weird but cool one. wire left on to long again.
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RobertB
Chumono
my tallest and strongest. still barely hanging on there down on lower branches. would love some advice. I know i have to be better about water during our heat spells with no rain.
RobertB
Chumono
here is one where i took the wire off even tough it broke loose some of the bark (lower left corner). we will see what happens.
RobertB
Chumono
a couple more to come as its gets nicer outside.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
If you want to strengthen the lower branches you have to reduce the top and ensure the middle is not shading the lower portion. focusing entirely on thickening the trunk leads to very few viable lower branches. This is typically achieved by reducing the apical leader and choosing a new apical leader. The major cut back encourages extra back budding and distributes more energy to the remaining branch. Picture attached for reference. You can also add some cover around the perimeter of the pond baskets and colanders to reduce evaporation if you are finding they dry out to fast. Or add pine or fir bark to the mix, or sphagnum on the surface.
Tip: when you water, water each tree three times to ensure the root ball is evenly watered. Just come back after a few minutes and repeat, thorough watering is important and really aids the length of time it is effective.
Just some food for thought, perhaps you are aware of all of the above! Best in Bonsai
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parhamr
Omono
Telperion’s advice would be to remove a lot of the upper needle mass (red marks) and to reduce the upper branches (blue).
The removal of extra needles would cause the trees to elongate even more (since they still had the auxin but the sugar/starch production was decreased). Reducing the apical dominance would allow the low buds to remain vigorous.
Or at least that’s how they described it.
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RobertB
Chumono
yes. thank you guys for this!! Ive been concerned about overall health cause i missed like 2 days in a row watering on this year during a heat wave (lots a couple trees)
when you suggest would be an ok time to do? i was honestly think mid summer, see how they do this spring..
when you suggest would be an ok time to do? i was honestly think mid summer, see how they do this spring..
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I would focus on improving the overall health prior to reducing. The guideline for me for reduction of the apical leader is when the trunk has reached 1 1/2 inches at the point I wish to reduce to. This essentially leaves a scar that is easier to manage. Keep in mind that another leader is needed at this point to provide a change of direction, add to taper and take over from the original sacrifice leader.
So at the proposed reduction point one should have retained three branches on the whorl. One for new trunk line, one for a primary branch and ne for a continuing sacrifice branch. It does not hurt to stage the reduction by partial reduction over a year or two. This gives multiple opportunities for bud back lower down on the trunk. Be sure to fertilize heavily and strengthen the tree each fall and spring at this stage.
At this point there does not appear to be shading occurring to weaken the lower portion. So I would cut back the stronger middle branches a bit to send the energy to the interior. remember to rotate your tree for even exposure to sunlight over the growing season.
Right now on the apical leaders reduce the buds to one central and a medium size bud on the side. On the middle branches reduce the buds to two.
And then at the beginning of June cut back into the remaining needles on the middle branches.This will cause back budding and new shoots on the middle branches , strengthening the middle portion. Leave the lower branches alone s they are weak and have very little foliage.
I would also begin to fertilize by the beginning of march and build up the fertilizer over the season to strengthen the trees overall. I prefer organic fertilizer with low numbers below 10 on NPK. Do not use fertilizer with a N rating of higher than 12. Just advice from experience.
Here are two picture showing six year pines and the same pines after reduction two years later and beginning to grow out again for further taper and thickening! First picture in 2018 and second in 2020. If you look carefully you can see the abundance of lower branching created by the reduction as noted above.
Hope the comments and pictures help.
RobertB
Chumono
getting a little lost in my recent pics. got to get back in the full swing here.
here is the subject tree again.
So i did a little needle pruning on this one as its been pretty strong and looks strong for spring. I also did some pruning. I feel like i learned a ton about JBP 3 years ago now.
after
branch thinning is hard to tell but i tried to follow Franks advice on that for sure!! Thank you Frank!!
This is all i removed in total!! a few small buds also but i through out.
Yep.. probably a lot to say about my scissors here. stainless is pretty important with my environment.
here is the subject tree again.
So i did a little needle pruning on this one as its been pretty strong and looks strong for spring. I also did some pruning. I feel like i learned a ton about JBP 3 years ago now.
after
branch thinning is hard to tell but i tried to follow Franks advice on that for sure!! Thank you Frank!!
This is all i removed in total!! a few small buds also but i through out.
Yep.. probably a lot to say about my scissors here. stainless is pretty important with my environment.
Attachments
RobertB
Chumono
Thank you. When is best to make a cut like that in your opinion? Fall? I sometimes get a little heavy on cutting but tend to be conservative on trees that I am putting more time into and attract me.
This is great again! I just cut back one of maple seedlings and did something similar. I just figure it’s time to start catching up with these. I’ve sort of let them be for the past 2 years. Min water and ferts. Overall care but water and ferts have been hard. I need a cheap organic that I can put on and not require a bag. I wanted to try Making some myself. Just enough work for me to put off during heat of summer.
I try to rotate but during the past two years, it’s probably been once every 3-4 months. Any suggestions?
This is what I tired to do on the pine I posted on today. I cut.. I think, 2 larger buds off and several smaller ones on the apical leader.
There were only two buds on the middle branches for the most part. I did remove a few small ones.
Thank you again!
And then at the beginning of June cut back into the remaining needles on the middle branches.This will cause back budding and new shoots on the middle branches , strengthening the middle portion. Leave the lower branches alone s they are weak and have very little foliage.
Thank you much for all this!
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I time the trunk reduction for the beginning of full extension of the spring candles. This is when the highest amount of auxin is present. Cutting at this time causes the strongest reaction for back budding. By full extension I mean when the needles have hardened off just after standing out from the candle extension. Wit for them to open and turn to a darker color this signals full photosynthesis and auxin production. Reducing that dominance with a reduction triggers the side shoots and bud production on the lower portion of the trunk.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
I go once per month, set the same time. easier to remember. Pick a day or the beginning or the end. put it in your I phone or calendar. Not a difficult or time consuming task, just needs to be remembered.
River's Edge
Imperial Masterpiece
When thinning needles it is best to do so only if the needles are shading out a lower portion required in the final design. keeping extra needles longer gives more opportunity for needle buds closer to the trunk. So if thinning is required I remove the needles on top of the branch, below the branch and thin some of the side needles. leaving batches of side needles in places where I would be happy to see side shoots. This allows light and air in for back budding in barre areas ( adventitious buds) and it also keeps the opportunity for needle buds in desired areas. I will post and example if you would like one. I also thought this diagram of a possible design approach may be helpful. I checked your thread and I do not believe I shared this with you before.
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RobertB
Chumono
I only have three pines left. Life goes on. These two seam decent but i need to do something to them this coming year to redistribute more energy to the bottom folliage. Ive probably chopped off some of the lower branching over the years i should have left. These both will be repotted this coming year.
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