Radialayer™ a season saver.

[Grant Hamby]

I've been running the Radialayer™ through my mind for a couple weeks now, trying to think of ways to improve upon an already great idea. I think I've got something that would make it easier to prepare in advance and allow it to adapt to different sized trees without extra work. That way, you could have a few whipped up and keep them in your car, just in case... (I'm not trying to perform air layers without permission, I'm just interested in trying it on some natives on my family's property. Buuut if I got permission from the nearby college campus, I'd have so many zelkovas.)

Anyway, I'm going to come up with a prototype and post pics asap. For now, off to sleep.

 

[Grant Hamby]

Here's what I came up with. Disclaimer: the idea was slightly cooler in my head, but it turned out alright I think.

My main difference was the use of zip ties and scoring the plastic to be secured onto the tree with friction. Here's what I mean:





With smaller diameter air-layers, the tabs from scoring will be shorter and more difficult to secure to the tree, so I used multiple zip ties (more than pictured).

One key is to go ahead and fold the tabs at the right point, depending on the diameter, because when you put it around the tree, it's very tricky to get all the tabs to go in the right direction.


Other than these things, the order of operations was fairly standard. Except I didn't use any putty because of the tabs. Hopefully they don't create too much drainage.

I sealed the seam with clear tape and gave it a good soak before I snapped the lid down and clamped it to the container with a small piece of thick wire.

 

[0soyoung]

Nice work.

I sealed the seam with clear tape

I predict that you will find the cellophane tape will have lost its 'stick' sooner than you would like.

 

[Grant Hamby]

Nice work.

I predict that you will find the cellophane tape will have lost its 'stick' sooner than you would like.

You're probably right. I may have to throw some duct tape on there or something. One of my goals was to keep it as transparent as possible, but that wouldn't block out too much.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

duct tape
re-apply as necessary

 

[Johnnyd]

Here's what I came up with. Disclaimer: the idea was slightly cooler in my head, but it turned out alright I think.

My main difference was the use of zip ties and scoring the plastic to be secured onto the tree with friction. Here's what I mean:
View attachment 120659
View attachment 120658
View attachment 120660
View attachment 120661

With smaller diameter air-layers, the tabs from scoring will be shorter and more difficult to secure to the tree, so I used multiple zip ties (more than pictured).

One key is to go ahead and fold the tabs at the right point, depending on the diameter, because when you put it around the tree, it's very tricky to get all the tabs to go in the right direction.
View attachment 120665

Other than these things, the order of operations was fairly standard. Except I didn't use any putty because of the tabs. Hopefully they don't create too much drainage.

I sealed the seam with clear tape and gave it a good soak before I snapped the lid down and clamped it to the container with a small piece of thick wire.
View attachment 120664

Any update?

 

[substratum]

To help this newbie connect the dots - as I understand it, the roots above the disc are (an ingenious way) to train pre-nebari. Will those pre-nebari roots emanate from those few millimeters of exposed girdle between the top of the putty cone/disc and the bark? Or, do the pre-nebari roots actually emanate from the bark above the girdle? Is the larger root ball created by roots growing through the putty cone, and/or from the girdle portion below the putty cone? What happens to the putty cone in the long run?

It seems like Grant Hamby's version using the zip tie at the bottom of the girdle to hold the layering device in place significantly increases the surface area of the girdle exposed to hormone and growing medium. Am I seeing this the right way?

 

[Japonicus]

https://www.kinsmangarden.com/product/Standard-Rooter-Pots-4/Rooter-Pots
For $3 each + sh/h I had to try these rooter pots. The larger ones up to 1" are $5 ea.
So why are they $250 ea on Amazon?

Lots of good info here, especially for those of us who've never layered anything!
The zip ties, soil, and even duct tape. Uncle Red would be proud up at the Opossum Lodge

 

[substratum]

https://www.kinsmangarden.com/product/Standard-Rooter-Pots-4/Rooter-Pots
For $3 each + sh/h I had to try these rooter pots. The larger ones up to 1" are $5 ea.
So why are they $250 ea on Amazon?

Lots of good info here, especially for those of us who've never layered anything!
The zip ties, soil, and even duct tape. Uncle Red would be proud up at the Opossum Lodge

I purchased a boxload of these about a dozen years ago to layer camellias and azaleas, but never had success. In retrospect and from reading these layering threads, I made catastrophic mistakes, including, but not limited to: not cutting a girdle; not using hormones; filling them with the wrong medium (potting soil); etc. There were various sizes in the box. Probably should look around the workshop to see if that box is still out there, but have a vague recollection of giving them away.

A cool feature of these commercial cups is they have a water reservoir in the bottom of the cups, which these homemade versions could easily add by using the bottom of a small plastic soft drink bottle and some hot glue. Based upon this thread, a downside would be that the hole size is the hole size.

 

[Johnnyd]

I purchased a boxload of these about a dozen years ago to layer camellias and azaleas, but never had success. In retrospect and from reading these layering threads, I made catastrophic mistakes, including, but not limited to: not cutting a girdle; not using hormones; filling them with the wrong medium (potting soil); etc. There were various sizes in the box. Probably should look around the workshop to see if that box is still out there, but have a vague recollection of giving them away.

A cool feature of these commercial cups is they have a water reservoir in the bottom of the cups, which these homemade versions could easily add by using the bottom of a small plastic soft drink bottle and some hot glue. Based upon this thread, a downside would be that the hole size is the hole size.

Another advantage of making one yourself is that you can select a container that is wider than it is tall. The commercially sold ones are too narrow IMO.

 

[sorce]

@substratum see the pics on the first page.

The roots will grow from the cambium just under the bark. So it is imperative to keep the disc as close as possible to the cut, but not too close.
The bark as on the left, tends to direct the roots downward. The disc is the to redirect them as soon as they exit.

Once your outside dish is removed, you have clear access to run a saw between the disc and the putty.



The disk can be left on or removed.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Another advantage of making one yourself is that you can select a container that is wider than it is tall. The commercially sold ones are too narrow IMO.

Amen! I still have visions of 9inch crab trunks with kiddie pool radial discs!
$9 at walmart! Lol!

Sorce

 

[substratum]

@sorce - I didn't notice the putty detail on the 1153 pic until I pulled it up on the big screen. Two putty cones - one holding the container, one holding the disc. Makes a LOT more sense to me now, with the understanding that the roots are growing from the cambium just under the bark.

Why do you cut such a wide girdle? Wouldn't just an inch or two work?

 

[milehigh_7]

To help this newbie connect the dots - as I understand it, the roots above the disc are (an ingenious way) to train pre-nebari. Will those pre-nebari roots emanate from those few millimeters of exposed girdle between the top of the putty cone/disc and the bark? Or, do the pre-nebari roots actually emanate from the bark above the girdle? Is the larger root ball created by roots growing through the putty cone, and/or from the girdle portion below the putty cone? What happens to the putty cone in the long run?

It seems like Grant Hamby's version using the zip tie at the bottom of the girdle to hold the layering device in place significantly increases the surface area of the girdle exposed to hormone and growing medium. Am I seeing this the right way?

See this thread:
https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/the-science-of-air-layering.27034/

 

[sorce]

Why do you cut such a wide girdle? Wouldn't just an inch or two work?

I don't know the science of the layer that keeps carrying water up, and wether or not it can be left exposed on the bottom and still be considered an "airlayer", or if it would be just an attached "cutting" at that point, if the exposed part kills that layer that keeps carrying water up....

But I have always wondered, why not leave it exposed so it is impossible for it to bridge?

It seems bridging is the most common failure.

Exposed would be the extreme end of preventing this.

A really long strip removed is the balance so far.

Sorce

 

[pweifan]

But I have always wondered, why not leave it exposed so it is impossible for it to bridge?

I tried this approach with a Japanese Maple last year. Did not work. I know that's only 1 data point, but figured it was worth mentioning. I filled a tupperware container with sphagnum and perlite and I used a wire to induce bulging.

 

[sorce]

1 data

Huge! Every one at a time!

Thanks!

Sorce

 

[Greastart]

Hey.
This elm died by the way! (you think?)

Anyway. I am sure it is because of the sphagnum over winter.

Sorce

Sorce, You've probably answered this a number of times already. If so, I apologize for asking again. Why would overwintering in sphagnum kill it? I think I did this to my stubborn dogwood.

Grease

 

[sorce]

Sorce, You've probably answered this a number of times already. If so, I apologize for asking again. Why would overwintering in sphagnum kill it? I think I did this to my stubborn dogwood.

Grease

Many folks don't have a problem with it...

I'm sure it has something to do with my "great lakes Eff zone".

Could have been the Chem fert at the time....
Quite honestly. ..

If you used chem fert T hats it ...

Cuz the top Sphag I have this year that never saw chemicals never did that.

Ching ching!

Sorce

 

[BE.REAL]

sadly I'm came upon this thread just now, but happily cause I am just setting up my A/L, although the weather here in N. England is typical, backwards and never what its suppose to be, but I wouldn't have it any other way. My thinking is all the trees end up getting confused too, and hope it works in my favor!! ha.
1st thanks Sorce, for all the good, I'm sorry, GREAT info!!
I am gonna stop by my mothers place, cause she saves anything in plastic, used for left overs( its a NE thing) so I will be good for the containers!!
So you do use R. hormone still, even though I may get cancer from it?
and correct me if I'm wrong, the roots only grow from the top part of the girdle and the reason to make it big, is so it doesn't bridge back..

I had to go running today, you might have seen it on TV , its called The Boston Marathon, and since its been Down pours all day, may start them manana.

Thanks again to all!!