Prunus Mume

[Jboy2424]

Typically, progression threads (ones that track a single tree over a long period of time) should stay generally on the topic of the tree. They can wander a bit, but full images and discussions about other trees get distracting and muddle up a progression thread.

Typically, a thread named "Prunus Mume" is for asking questions about that subject. Where as a thread named "Brian's Prunus Mume" would inform someone of a single train of thought or progression which initiates following a singular presentation.
If someone enters a thread stating "Prunus Mume" and takes one to a calendar structure one needs to get answers about the instructions. Since, I felt you were knowledgeable and instructing I felt it was the place to ask about a 25 year old specimen and 4 other mumes someone has plans to chop down. I needed help quickly and found that thread to be the best place to get an answer. What I got was instructed to ---- off.

 

[Jboy2424]

Typically, a thread named "Prunus Mume" is for asking questions about that subject. Where as a thread named "Brian's Prunus Mume" would inform someone of a single train of thought or progression which initiates following a singular presentation.
If someone enters a thread stating "Prunus Mume" and takes one to a calendar structure one needs to get answers about the instructions. Since, I felt you were knowledgeable and instructing I felt it was the place to ask about a 25 year old specimen and 4 other mumes someone has plans to chop down. I needed help quickly and found that thread to be the best place to get an answer. What I got was instructed to ---- off.

Since I may not have made that comment clear. I am not talking about "cutting back" - I'm talking about cutting down and destroying them.

 

[leatherback]

What I got was instructed to ---- off.

As you are new here, people on this forum are generally respectfull of eachothers threads. THere are some "open for all" and the others generally indicate this. There are others which track a persons individual tree through time, or deal with question on the specific tree.

You got a friendly question, using could you please requesting to make a thread for your own tree, in line with the forum etiquette.

Now, in order to get back to the gorgeous Mume by Brian, could we please stop this nonsense discussion here.

 

[Jboy2424]

And I asked for my response and the photo, of the tree I needed help with to be removed. (I actually asked them to remove all my posts from this thread) Then, I explained my position after the like by Brian. If you happen to know Owen could you ask him to contact me please. Thanks.

 

[Jboy2424]

Owen Reich.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Typically, a thread named "Prunus Mume" is for asking questions about that subject. Where as a thread named "Brian's Prunus Mume" would inform someone of a single train of thought or progression which initiates following a singular presentation.
If someone enters a thread stating "Prunus Mume" and takes one to a calendar structure one needs to get answers about the instructions. Since, I felt you were knowledgeable and instructing I felt it was the place to ask about a 25 year old specimen and 4 other mumes someone has plans to chop down. I needed help quickly and found that thread to be the best place to get an answer. What I got was instructed to ---- off.

You’ve been a member for 3 days now...we’re trying to help you with your bonsai questions and some pointers about how this forum works, but this is getting a bit ridiculous. Nobody has instructed you to F off. so far...

Back to the tree which is the subject of this thread, to which I respectfully request we return the discussion. Here are some shots of the repot.
Unpotted, after 2 years in this 14” pot. It was repotted annually except 2020, which, after heavy wiring, I decided to not repot. The result was pretty weak growth in 2020.



It was still draining ok, but the soil had become compact, and the roots had gotten dense and matted. I combed out the roots, but didn’t prune back very much. Combing them out does tear away some roots, as they’re somewhat brittle. Here it is combed out:


Settled into the new pot, and since the pot is not round, I took my time ensuring I had the front exactly right.


Then, since the pot was so much larger than the previous one (moved from a 14” to a 16.78” wide pot), I used some coarse soil and a little pumice in the bottom and lower portion of the pot, working it into the roots well with a chopstick. This should keep air exchange good and allow plenty of room for the roots to spread out. My prediction is the tree will have a good year of top growth. We’ll see.


Finer grained akadama and lava made up the top portion for good retention.


Finally, back on the bench to be watered in. I did not add sphagnum moss because the soil volume is so much greater.

 

[JoeR]

And while we’re here, a quick update...new old pot by Shuho.
View attachment 361819

Brian, have you considered reducing or removing the jin on the right at the first bend? I read through this thread and go back and forth about it. In this post 425, it seems like the direction of the jin conflicts somewhat with the flow of the branch thats growing down in front of it. Always different in person, but as she sits in pictures, I'm not able to say it adds anything to the overall composition. But I dig the new shoes!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Brian, have you considered reducing or removing the jin on the right at the first bend? I read through this thread and go back and forth about it. In this post 425, it seems like the direction of the jin conflicts somewhat with the flow of the branch thats growing down in front of it. Always different in person, but as she sits in pictures, I'm not able to say it adds anything to the overall composition. But I dig the new shoes!

You know, it’s funny how photos work sometimes. In person, I usually don’t even notice it’s still there. But when it does catch my eye, it’s the aged character I notice as an almost separate detail of the tree, rather than for any direction or flow it impacts. I will probably keep it as long as it doesn’t rot, just because it does tell a story. “It’s dead because...” and the rest of the story is, “now the rest of the tree lives on to the left”.

 

[badatusernames]

When you say you didn’t repot in 2020 and growth was weak, are you saying it’s because you didn’t repot or because you wired? Is it just a mume thing or are you typically repotting your trees in development annually?

Great little tree.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

When you say you didn’t repot in 2020 and growth was weak, are you saying it’s because you didn’t repot or because you wired? Is it just a mume thing or are you typically repotting your trees in development annually?

Great little tree.

Not sure which. At first I thought it was due to wiring, but eventually I began to wonder if it was because it wasn’t repotted. Hopeful for a better year this year, with less wire and fresh repot.

 

[JoeR]

You know, it’s funny how photos work sometimes. In person, I usually don’t even notice it’s still there. But when it does catch my eye, it’s the aged character I notice as an almost separate detail of the tree, rather than for any direction or flow it impacts. I will probably keep it as long as it doesn’t rot, just because it does tell a story. “It’s dead because...” and the rest of the story is, “now the rest of the tree lives on to the left”.

Absolutely, valid point. Like those "noseblind" commercials I think you just get used to seeing things, so figured I'd point it out. Always hard to say from pictures, in some it looks knobby but in 446 first pic it does add a little more character. Often many of us can be too reductive when working our trees so there's a balance, and it doesnt hurt to leave it.

 

[badatusernames]

Aside from the few open blooms, it doesn't look much different than the first photo of the thread. Once it really gets going, I'll prune back to a good profile and shoot it again.

@Kevster: if you can find a decent ume, I'd go for it. It took me years to find this one. Telperion and Muranaka sell them...Brent has had smaller ones at times, bought one from him that is in the ground and about 10' tall after 2 seasons!

Reading through this thread and the article here - https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/japanese-flowering-plum-basics/ - and see this:

After the leaves harden off in May, the tree can be cut back again if needed.

May is the time when the tree can be wired as well. Aluminum wire is normally used to wire ume but I’ve seen people use copper as well. Flowering Plum branches can be very brittle so be careful when bending them. The branch almost gives you no warning before they break.

The leaves can be defoliated after they have hardened of (May) as well. This technique is used to force the tree to produce more leaf buds, thus producing more branches. The downside is that there won’t be as many flower blooms in the Winter. During the Fall and Winter, there isn’t much work on the tree other then spraying pesticides, watering and feeding the tree.

I read this to mean that you can cut it back to shape between May (ish) and the beginning of Fall, is that accurate? As in, doing so now would perhaps even be encouraged, in order to control the new growth, even though it's a month beyond the end of May? And any shaping could be performed now as well? It looks like you pruned as late as August in a later post, I'm just trying to nail down timeframes for working with them as it seems pretty important to also leave them alone at certain times to avoid disrupting the buds.

Or is it simply that if you ensure you cut back to a leaf node you're generally fine?

I can start my own thread if that's more appropriate, I just feel like there should be some kind of "after" picture before I put one in front of folks' eyeballs and figured you'd be thinking about this right about now anyways if it was time for it. If not for all the warnings of how hard (impossible?) it is to get them to bud back from old wood I'd be inclined to leave it alone for awhile, but I suspect that inaction could be as bad as action in some instances as you try to control growth.

 

[badatusernames]

@Brian Van Fleet kindly revised the Prunus Mume schedule above; this is a corrected update:

Winter:

DECEMBER
- Prune lightly to a good shape for the flowers.
- Carefully wire it if needed. Don’t wire if there is a chance you will knock off flower or leaf buds, they’re easily dislodged at this stage.

JANUARY
- Enjoy the flowering show.
- After flowering finishes, cut back hard to 2/3 nodes. Careful here too, because many proximal buds are not viable. Don’t cut back past good buds. Good buds will be a richer brighter brown color when wet. Dead buds are dull and almost purple brown.
- Structural pruning if needed.

FEBRUARY
- It’s not growing yet.


Spring

MARCH
- Repot every spring, changing soil, and minimally pruning roots, as the buds are moving. Ume is one of the later trees to leaf out.
- Feed and water well.
- Let it grow.

APRIL
-Cut the first two leaves closest to the trunk.
- Wire green shoots.
- Let it grow.

MAY
- Prune to 2-3 nodes and wire.
- Let it grow, don’t prune back anything that grows from now until leaf-drop.


Summer

JUNE
- Let it grow.

JULY
- Dormancy.
- Take off the wire if biting in.
- Do not fully defoliate.

AUGUST
- Dormancy.
- Curly leaves.
- Remove wire.


Autumn

SEPTEMBER
- It’s not growing yet.

OCTOBER
- Some growing.

NOVEMBER
- Leaves fall.

nevermind I found this, sounds like Jan and April/May are the times to act where you are, should have finished reading the thread

 

[Trueblackpercula]

All you efforts have really paid off. Your tree is stunning. Your pot selection is just amazing I really like the shape and color of that one as it will compliment your tree and white flowers this coming season. I want my little tree to grow up to be just like yours.
Michael

 

[Trueblackpercula]

Any flowers this year ?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Any flowers this year ?

Yes, but it’s getting leggy and is in need of some grafting to bring it back in.
Not many good shots this year, due to weather and schedule.

 

[leatherback]

in need of some grafting to bring it back in.

Any surprises planned such as one red branch?

 

[Trueblackpercula]

It looks nice. I see what you mean about adding new branch’s but it still looks great and yes a pink branch would definitely add some character lol

 

[pandacular]

First time reading thru this thread, Fantastic tree, and I look forward to the next decade.

Hey, it’s almost January again…

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

First time reading thru this thread, Fantastic tree, and I look forward to the next decade.

Hey, it’s almost January again…

Thanks, it was a good tree, but I sold it in March.