Pruning deciduous now vs late winter
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JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
In GA. I wouldn't think there would be much difference, although this year has been challenging all around for temps. Mostly it's based on whether you can protect your tree from dieback on branches in colder temps.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
T -
Cutback is fall work. Plant tissue is still moving a bit in the fall and the tree can compartmentalize wounds still before winter. If your winter is mild, you can cut back in winter also, but in areas with hard freezes you can lose branches with a mid winter cutback. You can also cut back in late winter, but some species will bleed because the sap starts to run late winter. Clip a little branch tip and check for a little beed of water forming. If you have it, it’s too late for cutback. If you don’t, you should still be ok.
Scott
Cutback is fall work. Plant tissue is still moving a bit in the fall and the tree can compartmentalize wounds still before winter. If your winter is mild, you can cut back in winter also, but in areas with hard freezes you can lose branches with a mid winter cutback. You can also cut back in late winter, but some species will bleed because the sap starts to run late winter. Clip a little branch tip and check for a little beed of water forming. If you have it, it’s too late for cutback. If you don’t, you should still be ok.
Scott
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
To be clear - I tend to cutback late fall after leaf drop. I leave it alone and fertilize through the season until leaf drop to allow the tree to power up for dormancy and the spring push. Then after leaf drop, I cut back.
S
S
Tieball
Masterpiece
Cut back...as in trunk chop? Really hard cut back?
Or,
Cut back as in branch removal, shortening or other branch modification?
Just wondering...so I have the right thought.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I watched the Winter Prep free Mirai stream the other day.
Definitely changed my mind about fall pruning, and more. Maybe that was the Fall one.
My thing....
A dormant tree is in Anti-freeze mode.
Same like we get frost bite first on our extremities, nose tip, digits, toes....
Those extremities are the first to go on a tree as well.
Pruning removes these extremeties, which essentially just pushes the extremities back, sure they're thicker, not as susceptible, but it will still die BACK, from the outside in...
So fall pruning is, for me, is a removal of a safety net.
I question how much energy spent on "compartmentalizing wounds" before full dormancy, DOESNT go into creating antifreeze.
I MUST pay attention to these things.
I understand its different down there, you'se get away with it.*
But just because you can get a tree to live through it, doesn't mean your tree wont come into spring 5-10% healthier if you Don't prune.
After the Spring Repotting Myth....
Fall Cutback is my next Supreme NONO!
I'm quite certain these have been my killers.
What kills mine, Surely * takes a percentage out of yours.
Sorce
Definitely changed my mind about fall pruning, and more. Maybe that was the Fall one.
My thing....
A dormant tree is in Anti-freeze mode.
Same like we get frost bite first on our extremities, nose tip, digits, toes....
Those extremities are the first to go on a tree as well.
Pruning removes these extremeties, which essentially just pushes the extremities back, sure they're thicker, not as susceptible, but it will still die BACK, from the outside in...
So fall pruning is, for me, is a removal of a safety net.
I question how much energy spent on "compartmentalizing wounds" before full dormancy, DOESNT go into creating antifreeze.
I MUST pay attention to these things.
I understand its different down there, you'se get away with it.*
But just because you can get a tree to live through it, doesn't mean your tree wont come into spring 5-10% healthier if you Don't prune.
After the Spring Repotting Myth....
Fall Cutback is my next Supreme NONO!
I'm quite certain these have been my killers.
What kills mine, Surely * takes a percentage out of yours.
Sorce
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
Here we do fall pruning also after leafdrop. The apical bud on every branch is always the thickest. Removing them in fall distributes the strength. It is not that visible, but in winter the buds do grow a bit and in early spring they get ready to grow. With the apical bud away, the distribution is more equal. Next best time would be spring (certainly in colder climates), but when you have more than a few trees, spring might be busy and missing the window is not good.
Do you have time in spring, or do you have a hard winter? Do it in spring.
Do you have less time in spring and winter is moderate? Do it in fall. Clean trees in or outside the storage do feel nice.
Winter is the other option, it is possible too on some trees.
When trees are strong and in development it doesn't matter all that much. What species are we talking about?
Do you have time in spring, or do you have a hard winter? Do it in spring.
Do you have less time in spring and winter is moderate? Do it in fall. Clean trees in or outside the storage do feel nice.
Winter is the other option, it is possible too on some trees.
When trees are strong and in development it doesn't matter all that much. What species are we talking about?
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
I keep my deciduous trees in my garage, which doesn't get below freezing, that I know of...it gets to be like a refrigerator in there 35-41 deg F.
I have done fall, winter, and spring repot cutbacks on a few of mine...
I think as long as you seal your cuts quickly and well, it's fine either way.
It's certainly an interesting topic.....deserved of more conversation.
So far I can't tell a difference in my KH's or my CM, between fall vs winter pruning .... need more time with my maples and elms.
From my view, the thing that you're fighting against is significant dieback over the dormant season....
So...:
1) problem of sap bleeding out too much... - prune earlier in the dormant season.
2) problem of die back.... - prune during repot in early spring, to avoid die back during dormant season.
Contradictory advice here,
.
Hmmmmmm.....
How bout the best of both worlds, mid winter pruning and careful sealing of wounds...that's what I did this year on a few...
I have done fall, winter, and spring repot cutbacks on a few of mine...
I think as long as you seal your cuts quickly and well, it's fine either way.
It's certainly an interesting topic.....deserved of more conversation.
So far I can't tell a difference in my KH's or my CM, between fall vs winter pruning .... need more time with my maples and elms.
From my view, the thing that you're fighting against is significant dieback over the dormant season....
So...:
1) problem of sap bleeding out too much... - prune earlier in the dormant season.
2) problem of die back.... - prune during repot in early spring, to avoid die back during dormant season.
Contradictory advice here,
.Hmmmmmm.....
How bout the best of both worlds, mid winter pruning and careful sealing of wounds...that's what I did this year on a few...
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Gustavo Martins
Omono
Around here fall is when all the trees (not talking about bonsai) are cut back. Every year. For many years. It's common knowledge kind of.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I gotta use this to reiterate....
No one ever needed 5-10% more growth on their ground trees.
Which is only to say....
Balance.
But...
Balance what we may be unaware of.
(5-10% every year is exponential)
Sorce
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Simple Sorce,
Biology, and talk to Oso.
This really is not rocket science, and the problem is handed down information,
with no checks science wise.
Still want to be a Japanese apprentice ?
Good Day
Anthony
Biology, and talk to Oso.
This really is not rocket science, and the problem is handed down information,
with no checks science wise.
Still want to be a Japanese apprentice ?
Good Day
Anthony
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Not trunk chop.
Cutback involves pruning lignified branches that extended during the growing season. They are pruned to build branch structure and and shape (movement and taper), to encourage backbudding and to direct the spring growth. Boon can explain better than me:
In this video, we’re cutting back before leaf drop. It was taken in December a few years ago - leaf drop took place a few minutes after this video was shot. That’s fall here in Houston. If you live somewhere with proper seasons, wait until after leaf drop and then cut back.
Yes cutback can be hard - I’ve stubbed branches before during cut back.
Scott
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defra
Masterpiece
Is fall the only window to do this or is it possible to do this now too?
dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
My understanding is that there is an accumulation of resources in the tree until the trees turn colour and fall off in fall. After that moment there is a further distribution to give all tissue the glucose or starches they need to survive winter, and to be ready for spring. Removing the apical tips does remove some hormones that could trigger allocation. Doing the cutback in fall gives the tree the chance to distribute the energy over less buds, encouraging to give the supplement of energy to buds that would otherwise be neglected. In spring there is an allocation of water to the places with the highest concentration of sugars (osmosis). Cutting in spring does optimize the total energy in the tree for the winter, but the small buds will not have the chance to have the power they could have had. Then you need to wait to trigger them by hard pruning after leaf is hardened. I think for finer ramified trees it is best to do in fall. For raw trees in development it doesn't matter that much. Distributing strength is something we do in spring (cutting back the strongest growth, or pinching in some cases), in summer (thinning leaves and partial defoliation), in fall (removing excess leaves in strong areas) and fall / winter / early spring (cutting back to finer growth). It's a proces that you have to be aware off so you don't contradict your own actions. So no, fall is not the only time. It is convenient because the leaves are gone, the tree has some activity to heal, and has the longest time to redistribute energy. Do it now and it will be no problem and in spring it is ok too (certainly when hard frost is anticipated).
But there is some pro and contra to all methods, just pick what is appropriate for the tree.
For maples i would say fall is the only time (besides when leaves are hardened).
But there is some pro and contra to all methods, just pick what is appropriate for the tree.
For maples i would say fall is the only time (besides when leaves are hardened).
Stan Kengai
Omono
It is not ideal to prune during the dead of winter. Your plants are fully dormant and have no mechanism to seal off wounds. It's best to do it in late fall, November to early December around here. Second best would be late winter as buds begin to move.
That being said, if you have somewhere to store your plants out of the elements over the winter, and you seal with the gooey cut paste (which keeps the wound from drying out), it's just like pruning in late winter.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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Fwiw, in a typical winter, my deciduous trees here in N GA start to move in early to mid February, and by March, they are leafing out. Last year was the exception... I had fully opened leaves on a trident by the first week of February. 22F this AM... mid 60's later this week... I have no idea what to expect this year. So... I listen to the trees. This past fall, I did a lot of pruning to many of my maples and water elms when the leaves started to turn and drop. The few remaining that need pruning will get it done when the buds start to swell. It might be in 3 weeks or 2 months, but it should be ok because the tree will be ready to deal with the insult.
Lazylightningny
Masterpiece
In my area, NY, I've found that if I do major structural reductions in the fall (ie, trunk chops and major branch reductions), the plant died the following spring. I believe it's because of the amount of fungal infections we have here, and it had all winter to dig in and kill the plant. I now do my major pruning at the end of Feb or beginning of March, so the tree has the growing season to heal.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
In SC I prune on through the winter, typically doesn’t hurt them as most iur winters are mild. Do seal the wounds though to orevent disease and bugs from get in there
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