Presumed recurrent fungal infection on Trident Maple

[Lars Grimm]

Just a theory, but a lot of things line up with it. I'm always the most hopeful in spring after thinking about solutions all winter, instead of looking at crispy maple leaves lol. I'm glad that people say that it doesn't seem to be fatal, but I'd really like to figure out a solution.

Hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, and breaks down into H2O and oxygen. A good soak (submerging the pot) will ensure it gets to the hard-to-reach shin. Never done it personally.

Tilting the pot could help for sure.

I'm curious how people water those over-the-top pancake nebari trees we all see from Japan. How does water not stagnate under the trunk?

Wouldn't the hydrogen peroxide just provide a very short term solution to increase oxygenation though?

I have thought about using the Oxiphon and Zerotol combination as this has listed efficacy against pythium as well as broad spectrum bactericidal and fungicidal. I tried a bit of a foliar application late in the season last year, but maybe I will include it more aggressively in the rotation this year

 

[BonsaiMatt]

Wouldn't the hydrogen peroxide just provide a very short term solution to increase oxygenation though?

I have thought about using the Oxiphon and Zerotol combination as this has listed efficacy against pythium as well as broad spectrum bactericidal and fungicidal. I tried a bit of a foliar application late in the season last year, but maybe I will include it more aggressively in the rotation this year

Yes, the timing of application would be important, it would prob be best to do this leading up to a forecasted outbreak (the days before the first hot days of the year). This would greatly reduce the numbers of anaerobic species in the soil before things 'bloom' in the heat.

I have never done this, so I would want to do more research on what concentrations to use etc.

 

[leatherback]

Yes, the timing of application would be important, it would prob be best to do this leading up to a forecasted outbreak (the days before the first hot days of the year). This would greatly reduce the numbers of anaerobic species in the soil before things 'bloom' in the heat.

To be honest, I feel there is a lot of wishfull thinking involved.

Hydrogen perodxide has the makings of snake oil. I hear SOOOO many things it is supposedly good for..

 

[BonsaiMatt]

To be honest, I feel there is a lot of wishfull thinking involved.

Hydrogen perodxide has the makings of snake oil. I hear SOOOO many things it is supposedly good for..

I'm full of wishful thinking in spring lol

 

[BonsaiMatt]

To be honest, I feel there is a lot of wishfull thinking involved.

Hydrogen perodxide has the makings of snake oil. I hear SOOOO many things it is supposedly good for..

To be fair, I don't intend to try the hydrogen peroxide approach, just throwing out ideas. My main idea is that this could be a root mold leading to bacterial infection.

 

[Lars Grimm]

Just curious to see how everyone has done so far this year?

I have been much more vigilant this year and have had much better results. I used Subdue in March and then again in August. I have been giving monthly granular Clearys 3336 and then spraying 2-3 times a month with foliar Daconil and Mancozeb depending on how rainy it has been. I tried a few doses of zerotol/oxiphos in the spring. I have had a few blackened tips on the 2nd flush which I have just promptly cut off. In previous years, they just keep coming back black on subsequent flushes, but not this year.

One year is not a pattern, but I feel much more comfortable in my ability to grow trident maples with this approach.

 

[BonsaiMatt]

Been kinda busy with a new job so I haven't payed as much attention this year, but so far so good. I've had almost no black tips this year. I did major repots and applied granular clearys in spring, no sprays this year (sprays didn't seem to do anything anyway). Not sure if it's a fluke good year weather-wise, or if the bonide infuse (clearys 3336) is doing the trick. I also applied less fertilizer this year, again because I've been distracted, but maybe the slower growth has been more disease resistant.

Thanks for the reminder, I should apply infuse again.

 

[bwaynef]

I didn't have this issue on a trident, but I did see it on a couple other maples. I sprayed with Lime Sulphur this late-winter and my maples have been WORLDS better this year. Might be apples and oranges, but I'm convinced.

 

[John P.]

How’s everyone doing with their tridents this year? I wasn’t as regular about dormant spraying over our “winter.” Many of my rare trident cultivars have fungal issues now, and a couple seem to be on the edge of not making it (poor leaf-out). They’re all pre-bonsai, so it’s not a catastrophe, but still. Miyasama, cork bark and others.

 

[Lars Grimm]

How’s everyone doing with their tridents this year? I wasn’t as regular about dormant spraying over our “winter.” Many of my rare trident cultivars have fungal issues now, and a couple seem to be on the edge of not making it (poor leaf-out). They’re all pre-bonsai, so it’s not a catastrophe, but still. Miyasama, cork bark and others.

Very similar. A couple tridents leafed out with some black edges and curl. This includes some of my tridents in the ground which is unusual.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Well my trident now looks like Lars tree from the first post. I switched this spring from my usual soil mix of pumice, Permatil, pine bark to one that is essentially Boon’s Mix., pumice, Permatil, akadama. That may just be coincidental but anyway I have ordered the Bonide Infuse granular and will use it. I am beginning to think @63pmp may be on to something with his earlier post #96. I am also wondering about this pH issue. I have always used tap water but noted it has an annual average pH of 7.5 here which sounds a bit too high. So I will also switch to rain water. Another related concern is potential calcium magnesium deficiency. Some sources suggest as long as you have 10% organic matter in your soil it should be OK and with my old mix that was true. However with Boon’s Mix I only added a handful of pine bark to a 5 gal bucket so am now concerned about these secondary nutrients being in short supply. My fertilizer does have micros but not calcium and magnesium. So now I am wondering whether I need to get some CalMag to sweeten the mix or maybe just sprinkle on a little gypsum and epsom salts.

 

[ABCarve]

Well, my trident seems to be cured......for now. Second flush of growth tips are free of disease. I didn't use any chemicals this spring. What I did do was defoliate the entire tree mid-June last year (2021) and probably 50-60% this year. Last spring 2021 got drenched with a combo of Clearys and Subdue as buds emerged. IMO the defoliation got rid of the diseased leaves. This is not the first tree fungus that I fixed with defoliation, i.e. red maple. Let me be clear, I'm not endorsing this technique, as I'm not sure we all have the same disease. I'm just telling you what I did for mine.

 

[0soyoung]

Well, my trident seems to be cured......for now. Second flush of growth tips are free of disease. I didn't use any chemicals this spring. What I did do was defoliate the entire tree mid-June last year (2021) and probably 50-60% this year. Last spring 2021 got drenched with a combo of Clearys and Subdue as buds emerged. IMO the defoliation got rid of the diseased leaves. This is not the first tree fungus that I fixed with defoliation, i.e. red maple. Let me be clear, I'm not endorsing this technique, as I'm not sure we all have the same disease. I'm just telling you what I did for mine.

View attachment 447893View attachment 447894

On the other hand, maybe you should endorse it. Infected leaves are just a source of continued/renewed infection.

 

[birchman]

I hope no one binned their trees. There was a follow-up from Bonsaify on Youtube:

The expensive fungicide seems to have worked for Eric. I'll be trying this.

 

[Underdog]

This is a great thread. I've been battling similar issues described in my thread below. Curious in this video and exactly 2 minutes in, he mentions a type of Trident where leaves flip upside down naturally/normally. I thought I had read this here before but couldn't search out the info. It has done this since I had it and I have kept it too wet thinking it needed water causing other the issues as well.
What do you guys think?

Underdog's problem children.

I have a couple problem children I hope to get advice on. I believe both to be fungal but, what say you? First is a Trident I've had a couple years. It was repotted into a smaller pot this spring and have been keeping it maybe too wet. But had the same issue last year in a larger pot to a lesser...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

To be honest, I feel there is a lot of wishfull thinking involved.

Hydrogen perodxide has the makings of snake oil. I hear SOOOO many things it is supposedly good for..

Could be for some things after all, it’s not magic… but a really good, well documented, environmentally safe option that can be used with frequent applications with no deleterious effects before blasting the rhizosphere with much longer lasting hazardous chemicals, to cure some issues resulting from….a result of of no so good horticultural technique?

BTW…. curious…..have you ever tried it?

If so, what were your applications/concentrations?

cheers
DSD sends

 

[leatherback]

BTW…. curious…..have you ever tried it?

never had the need tbh

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I have thought about using the Oxiphon and Zerotol combination as this has listed efficacy against pythium as well as broad spectrum bactericidal and fungicidal. I tried a bit of a foliar application late in the season last year, but maybe I will include it more aggressively in the rotation this year

…. and H2O2 is both… and much cheaper and safer.

CDC report on chemical disinfectants.

“Microbicidal Activity.
Hydrogen peroxide is active against a wide range of microorganisms, including bacteria, yeasts, fungi, viruses, and spores 78, 654. A 0.5% accelerated hydrogen peroxide demonstrated bactericidal and virucidal activity in 1 minute and mycobactericidal and fungicidal activity in 5 minutes 656.”

So that’s 1/6th strength of the 3% H2O2 usually sold in our drug/grocery stores in the US.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[BonsaiMatt]

…. and H2O2 is both… and much cheaper and safer.

CDC report on chemical disinfectants.

“Microbicidal Activity.
Hydrogen peroxide is active against a wide range of microorganisms, including bacteria, yeasts, fungi, viruses, and spores 78, 654. A 0.5% accelerated hydrogen peroxide demonstrated bactericidal and virucidal activity in 1 minute and mycobactericidal and fungicidal activity in 5 minutes 656.”

So that’s 1/6th strength of the 3% H2O2 usually sold in our drug/grocery stores in the US.

cheers
DSD sends

I had plans to try h2o2 if things went bad again, but my tridents stopped showing these symptoms. I credit a good repotting and switching to rain water. I also started using bonide infuse a couple times a year (spring/fall).

I still think I had a bacterial infection caused by root fungus. I have stopped spraying all *cides in my garden, didn't seem to do anything, and can't be good for my health to breathe that junk.

Probably we all have different issues, which is why one solution doesn't seem to work for everyone.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Not sure why a bacterial infection would be caused by a root fungus?

Hazarding an opinion, over the past years it seems to me folks with high humidity, hot weather and a water retentive media like bark and those who have done a lot of work on their trees at non optional times, seem to have the most issues.

Yet I’m only an expert for what works in this yard, containing many different species of trees . .

That said, I rarely have issues and these mainly crop up when we have the torrential rainfall in spring or fall, when I jam a bunch of cuttings or trees close together, water too late in the day or try to force work on a tree at inappropriate times.

When issues first crop up, there is an established protocol that works for the trees here.

cheers
DSD sends