Presumed recurrent fungal infection on Trident Maple

[leatherback]

Not sure why a bacterial infection would be caused by a root fungus?

Hazarding an opinion, over the past years it seems to me folks with high humidity, hot weather and a water retentive media like bark and those who have done a lot of work on their trees at non optional times, seem to have the most issues.

Yet I’m only an expert for what works in this yard, containing many different species of trees . .

That said, I rarely have issues and these mainly crop up when we have the torrential rainfall in spring or fall, when I jam a bunch of cuttings or trees close together, water too late in the day or try to force work on a tree at inappropriate times.

When issues first crop up, there is an established protocol that works for the trees here.

cheers
DSD sends

I guess you are making the point I was making before about not having to use H2O2: Work on healthy plants. Use the best horticultural practices and at the right time of the year, and most problems are avoided.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Well, I removed any diseased leaves/shoots and applied Infuse granular today and have been watching the water. We have been visited by almost daily thunderstorms so keeping the maples drier than usual is an issue but I know the pH is not an issue. However given the inorganic substrate it goes through the pot like shit through a goose, hopefully the Infuse will not be washed out as fast. If that doesn’t work this year I may get out the H2O2 and add that to the mix next year.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

And a month later is it cured? It has now had two Infuse treatments and I cut back on watering so it is visibly dry and the new leaves almost wilting before I water it. The new growth is now vigorous with no signs of tip curl, blackening, or disease. At this point there are only these two tips to base that on but more are getting ready to pop so time will tell. I hope this combination works or it may go up for sale!

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Good news!

Infuse works well, long lasting and effective as a long lasting systemic and a imho a last resort.

From horticultural perspective it takes pretty much all the fungi, good and bad and reeks long term havoc in the rhizosphere... Something that can allow other issues to surface, leaving one chasing the issues with a sea bag full of different products.

Just for a minute I’m going to put on my, Chemical Hygiene Officer hat (sort of retired).

One should always download and study the product safety data sheet (sds) for a specific product before purchase of hazardous chemicals, which this is. Here is the SDs for Infuse granules. Note the signal word Danger, which is used for more severe hazards along with the first two hazard warnings …. in order of magnitude . May cause cancer if inhaled …Causes damage to organs through repeated and prolonged exposure (which one does as a hobbyist working plants, not to forget dust in storage area… pets and children.

Not trying to scare anyone, just pointing out this product doesn’t only affect the fungi and it’s hazards last a long time too….. Please be safe, wear proper PPE and store in a sealed area out of reach of kids.

There is a reason I recommend Hydrogen Peroxide. While it also has signal word Danger, its risks are easy to avoid with proper PPE and storage away from extreme heat and it’s stay time is very short. It has maximum effectiveness, max stay time varies from five minutes full strength to less then a minute at normal application, chemical by products (fast degradation to O2 + 2H2O) are minimal and safe.

Ok, I’m taking off my hat now.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Yes, the active ingredient is the same as Cleary’s. The reason I got the Infuse granular is I hated to spray Clear’s and other fungicides. After reading the user label and precautions it leaves you afraid to go near the stuff! I have Daconil, Cleary’s and Bonide Infuse liquid and ahte to ise the so a granular form was a way to knock this stuff back without spraying.

 

[Ben in Kzoo]

This thread is what I have been looking for… now the 3rd or 4th year, is there a conclusion on how to get rid of that problem?
At least one of my better trident shows symptoms
Thanks all

 

[bwaynef]

Lime sulfur in the dormant season, vinegar treatments (Guy Guidry's recommendation, is that in this thread?) in the growing season, and systemic fungicides UNTIL its under control along w/ vigorous growth are the best treatments I'm aware of.

 

[bonsai-engineer]

My tridents displayed similar symptoms this year. I kept a record for one of them:

03/07: buds break

04/03: pruned vigorous shoots

04/24: pruned vigorous shoots

04/26: a few leaves had spots. I sprayed tebuconazole (BioAdvanced 3-in-1)

05/12: many leaves had spots and many emerging leaves died back. I pruned them and sprayed copper octanoate (Bonide)

05/29: all leaves had spots and all emerging leaves died back. I defoliated the tree, applied granular propiconazole, took it off the bench, and put it in my grow tent (16h on 8h off, 78F day/68F night, 65% RH day/75% RH night, a lot of air movement)

06/01: buds break

06/07: a few emerging leaves died back

06/10: all new growth was healthy

06/14: the tree is almost full and is beautiful again!

 

[SeanS]

My tridents displayed similar symptoms this year. I kept a record for one of them:

03/07: buds break

04/03: pruned vigorous shoots

04/24: pruned vigorous shoots

04/26: a few leaves had spots. I sprayed tebuconazole (BioAdvanced 3-in-1)

05/12: many leaves had spots and many emerging leaves died back. I pruned them and sprayed copper octanoate (Bonide)

05/29: all leaves had spots and all emerging leaves died back. I defoliated the tree, applied granular propiconazole, took it off the bench, and put it in my grow tent (16h on 8h off, 78F day/68F night, 65% RH day/75% RH night, a lot of air movement)

06/01: buds break

06/07: a few emerging leaves died back

06/10: all new growth was healthy

06/14: the tree is almost full and is beautiful again!

My experience is that once a fungal infection has taken hold Propocanizole is the only thing that works. All other fungicides usually recommended for bonsai work well as preventatives but once there’s an infection going I’ve only seen it clear up with Propocanizole.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I have been working at curing this on mine as well. I traced my problems back to just after I switched potting mix from pumice, Permatil, pine bark to a standard 1:1:1 akadama, pumice, Permatil in 2022. Treated twice with Bonide systemic fungicide in 2022. Infection returned June 2023 and have been treating it monthly with Infuse granular. Repotted 2/24 in pumice soil after lime sulfur treatment. Infection seems to have disappeared as of today. So it seems to have been a mix of a coarser well draining soil, Infuse granular fungicide, and lime sulfur did the trick for me.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

I have been working at curing this on mine as well. I traced my problems back to just after I switched potting mix from pumice, Permatil, pine bark to a standard 1:1:1 akadama, pumice, Permatil in 2022. Treated twice with Bonide systemic fungicide in 2022. Infection returned June 2023 and have been treating it monthly with Infuse granular. Repotted 2/24 in pumice soil after lime sulfur treatment. Infection seems to have disappeared as of today. So it seems to have been a mix of a coarser well draining soil, Infuse granular fungicide, and lime sulfur did the trick for me.

It’s back! My trident was looking real healthy this summer however that changed over the last couple of weeks. Like much of the US we have been experiencing very hot days in July and little to no rain. During that time as long as I watered the tree by about 10 am it was fine, but any later and the new foliage would begin to wilt. This I think was due to the very free draining soil mix I used back on the spring. Well a little over a week ago that all changed. The temps went from the upper 80s each day to the mid-to-upper 70s and the sky opened up with daily rain. I think we have had over 8 inches during the last week or 10 days. As a result of all this excess water the new leaves have blackened and died. So this morning I cut back all the new shoots to profile and moved the tree into the new greenhouse. I assume that all this heat in mid-July put the tree into a semi-dormant state and all that excess water did its worst. Hopefully the soil will dry out and the roots will recover. I will apply a treatment of Infuse granular fungicide as well.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Please chock up one side of the pot to increase drainage. Water normally, but not the foliage.

Please take the tree out of the rain until the issue resolves.

Best
DSD sends

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Please chock up one side of the pot to increase drainage. Water normally, but not the foliage.

Please take the tree out of the rain until the issue resolves.

Best
DSD sends

As I said its in the greenhouse now out of the rain, tipped to one end.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Sorry.

Gosh! This sure is beginning to sound like the tree has a vascular infection. Like Verticillium tip wilt or Fusarium

The usual treatment is to prune branches back until there is no visible discoloration in a horizontal cross section. Once done spray with alcohol and seal immediately when dry.

Had something like this with a Pacific Fire vine maple. Looks like it may survive.

Good luck
DSD sends

 

[MGTT]

@Deep Sea Diver. Thanks for the info, I’ll try that on my maples.

 

[WNC Bonsai]

Sorry.

Gosh! This sure is beginning to sound like the tree has a vascular infection. Like Verticillium tip wilt or Fusarium

The usual treatment is to prune branches back until there is no visible discoloration in a horizontal cross section. Once done spray with alcohol and seal immediately when dry.

Had something like this with a Pacific Fire vine maple. Looks like it may survive.

Good luck
DSD sends

Well I clipped back the stems on the effected branches and none were discolored so I suspect (hope) it was just too much water following up after several weeks of heat stress. We got another 1 1/2” in the last 24 hours and the smell of mildew in the yard is everywhere—sort of like Oregon/Wasington in the fall/winter/spring!