Powerful Japanese Zelkova

[Mikecheck123]

I like the apex going to the right. It feels more unstable, but they say that art is supposed to make you uncomfortable.

 

[BobbyLane]

thanks guys, im really looking forward to seeing it naked now. im fine with the apex going right now, it gives the tree more movement and takes nothing away from the whole balance of the tree.

 

[cmeg1]

Looking very cool.....zelkova sure are vigorous...and bud like crazy

 

[Woocash]

Please don’t take this as a slight because it is not intended to be, but... I love the outline of this and I know the spine of this tree is all there, but under the hood the branch structure seems like it will be quite juvenile or thin. I appreciate this is only in it’s infancy with regards to branch development, but is it not a bit early for hedging this one? Should thicker branches not be encouraged before trying to gain lots of ramification?

I ask mainly because I am planning my process with a couple of field maples and I am trying to get an idea of the best form of attack. I guess this will look more like a bonsai sooner (ie now), but it will take longer to become an actual bonsai.

I guess, are you intentionally sacrificing long term benefits for short term aesthetic?

 

[BobbyLane]

Please don’t take this as a slight because it is not intended to be, but... I love the outline of this and I know the spine of this tree is all there, but under the hood the branch structure seems like it will be quite juvenile or thin. I appreciate this is only in it’s infancy with regards to branch development, but is it not a bit early for hedging this one? Should thicker branches not be encouraged before trying to gain lots of ramification?

I ask mainly because I am planning my process with a couple of field maples and I am trying to get an idea of the best form of attack. I guess this will look more like a bonsai sooner (ie now), but it will take longer to become an actual bonsai.

I guess, are you intentionally sacrificing long term benefits for short term aesthetic?

hi mate, its cool. i wouldnt really call it hedging whats been done on this one.
ive been balancing the vigour throughout from the start with low n middle branches allowed to extend further than the crown, im constantly trimming shoots in the crown, what happens is the top gets more n more ramified while the low n mid branches become stronger and thicken, here are some close up shots of whats happening inside

this is the first branch on left ive allowed two from one point here just because it works...but see how thick theyre getting


the first branch on the right as seen from the start was already substantial right,
so here is a secondary shoot at the base of it,


middle


as you go up the tree you want thinner branches right

at the end of the season ill do a before n after of last seasons naked image compared to this seasons

 

[BobbyLane]

the elm has been developed the same way are you familiar with it?


i would add also, i dont believe that trees need to look crappy all the time during development. i prefer to enjoy my trees while they develop. on species like this you can get away with a lot of crown thinning while allowing other areas to develop. if i were just to let it go as you suggest i would end up with a lot of course shoots throughout the tree but especially in the crown.
i trim the shoots in the crown while theyre are still red most of the time and within days they shoot back.
i dont do this on all my trees but in regards to zelkova i did read an article by Marcus watts some time back and he recommended treating zelkova this way.
i read a book by Colin lewis some time ago, regarding elms he also had a method where he would constantly trim the crowns of english elms back to one or two nodes continuously while allowing other areas to extend and G potter also advocates this type of pruning in his video pruning deciduous bonsai.

hope you understand

 

[AlainK]

What I really like with your Zelkova is that it looks strong, healthy, full of life.

It brings me joy, an optimistic vision of the future. It's a very soothing image in these times of uncertainty and anxiety.

How long do you think it will take for the big scar to disappear on your elm ?

 

[Mikecheck123]

hi mate, its cool. i wouldnt really call it hedging whats been done on this one.
ive been balancing the vigour throughout from the start with low n middle branches allowed to extend further than the crown, im constantly trimming shoots in the crown, what happens is the top gets more n more ramified while the low n mid branches become stronger and thicken, here are some close up shots of whats happening inside

this is the first branch on left ive allowed two from one point here just because it works...but see how thick theyre getting
View attachment 323664

the first branch on the right as seen from the start was already substantial right,
so here is a secondary shoot at the base of it,
View attachment 323665

middle
View attachment 323666

as you go up the tree you want thinner branches right

at the end of the season ill do a before n after of last seasons naked image compared to this seasons

I absolutely love the elegant serrations on zelkovas. They are not jagged saw teeth---rather, each one is a perfect dollop of whipped cream.

 

[Woocash]

the elm has been developed the same way are you familiar with it?
View attachment 323671

i would add also, i dont believe that trees need to look crappy all the time during development. i prefer to enjoy my trees while they develop. on species like this you can get away with a lot of crown thinning while allowing other areas to develop. if i were just to let it go as you suggest i would end up with a lot of course shoots throughout the tree but especially in the crown.
i trim the shoots in the crown while theyre are still red most of the time and within days they shoot back.
i dont do this on all my trees but in regards to zelkova i did read an article by Marcus watts some time back and he recommended treating zelkova this way.
i read a book by Colin lewis some time ago, regarding elms he also had a method where he would constantly trim the crowns of english elms back to one or two nodes continuously while allowing other areas to extend and G potter also advocates this type of pruning in his video pruning deciduous bonsai.

hope you understand

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I was just trying to get an idea of what the plan is. If the elm was done in the same way then that’s all the advocate you need. It looks great. How long has it been in development?
Its nice that it is a viable technique without having to go crazy in terms of, like you say, getting coarse growth and long nodes. You just see lots of information about growing sacrifice branches to gain faster girth etc, but I always figured the distance between nodes could create problems when trying to coax suitable buds down the line. Thanks.

 

[BobbyLane]

What I really like with your Zelkova is that it looks strong, healthy, full of life.

It brings me joy, an optimistic vision of the future. It's a very soothing image in these times of uncertainty and anxiety.

How long do you think it will take for the big scar to disappear on your elm ?

literally forgot about the hollow at the back until you mentioned it, ive no idea

 

[BobbyLane]

Yes, that makes perfect sense. I was just trying to get an idea of what the plan is. If the elm was done in the same way then that’s all the advocate you need. It looks great. How long has it been in development?
Its nice that it is a viable technique without having to go crazy in terms of, like you say, getting coarse growth and long nodes. You just see lots of information about growing sacrifice branches to gain faster girth etc, but I always figured the distance between nodes could create problems when trying to coax suitable buds down the line. Thanks.

its been worked on around 6 years now, the branch development is good in terms of stronger lower branches but the ramification still needs work.

 

[AlainK]

forgot about the hollow at the back

Good idea

 

[BobbyLane]

Best bit of colour ive had all autumn, its still changing from lime green to yellow in places

 

[Lutonian]

Nice tree, my fall colour was poor on the elms and zelkova's. mine have been leafless for around two weeks now and I'm only 35-40miles further up north from you.

 

[AlainK]

my fall colour was poor on the elms and zelkova's.

Same here for the potted ones. Elm + Zelkova. The Zelkova should have red/orange leaves :



But the big one I have in the ground had red leaves as usual. You can see some in the top right-hand corner of this photo (Oct. 19th)

 

[BobbyLane]

Nice tree, my fall colour was poor on the elms and zelkova's. mine have been leafless for around two weeks now and I'm only 35-40miles further up north from you.

Hi, most have dropped leaves around here, but there is a birch and sycamore in similar stages to the Zelkova
this is the sycamore across from my balcony, i get a lot of sun back here its south facing. not sure if that plays a role. couple of my Hornbeams look like they want to bud out

 

[BobbyLane]

Same here for the potted ones. Elm + Zelkova. The Zelkova should have red/orange leaves :

View attachment 343422

But the big one I have in the ground had red leaves as usual. You can see some in the top right-hand corner of this photo (Oct. 19th)

View attachment 343424

Thats a nice buttery yellow, i think there is still time for the colours to improve on mine before they drop.

 

[Lutonian]

weird year for sure, the only trees that still have to loose there leaves in my garden is my Ume seedlings and acer sempervirens sapling every thing else except the evergreens are nude already

 

[AlainK]

the only trees that still have to loose there leaves in my garden is my Ume seedlings and acer sempervirens sapling

I can understand for Acer sempervirens, litterally "always green" in latin, they will keep their leaves in winter in their native habitat, but I'm surprised by the Ume : I don't have one as a bonsai, but two that are potted, about 60/80 cm tall but still rather thin, waiting to get bigger, and one from the same batch that I planted in the ground and is now over 2 metres tall. They all lost their leaves about 3 weeks ago, and our climates are very similar. Even milder here in the past week I think (no snow, only 2 days of very light frost, 0°, -1° C).

This afternoon, I removed the old tomato plants and stakes and I noticed that on the one in the ground, there are many buds that are even turning green, as if they thought Spring was coming.

It's night time here now (19:45 French time, 18:45 across the Channel) but if it doesn't rain too much tomorrow, I'll post a picture...

 

[Lutonian]

I can understand for Acer sempervirens, litterally "always green" in latin, they will keep their leaves in winter in their native habitat, but I'm surprised by the Ume : I don't have one as a bonsai, but two that are potted, about 60/80 cm tall but still rather thin, waiting to get bigger, and one from the same batch that I planted in the ground and is now over 2 metres tall. They all lost their leaves about 3 weeks ago, and our climates are very similar. Even milder here in the past week I think (no snow, only 2 days of very light frost, 0°, -1° C).

This afternoon, I removed the old tomato plants and stakes and I noticed that on the one in the ground, there are many buds that are even turning green, as if they thought Spring was coming.

It's night time here now (19:45 French time, 18:45 across the Channel) but if it doesn't rain too much tomorrow, I'll post a picture...

Hi alaink my ume are just matchstick thin seedlings pictures I just took are not the best. I am using my phone at night. Acer sempervirens is not quite evergreen they go butter yellow and loose there leaves in my garden in late January. Even in crete and such places they do loose there leaves completely a few weeks before they push their new growth.