potentially an awesome nebari

Lol.20150816_113152.jpg
It doesn't look as good as I remembered.

It looks exactly like that one!:rolleyes:

Must be something more enjoyable in person....cuz I called this my favorite Azalea of all time!

I don't like when the top is forgotten for the bottom....the top still has to look nice.

And the few that you can see the 4in nursery pot circling roots....hell no.

Sorce
 
I would make room on my bench for ANY of Adair's examples of exposed roots style in this thread.

Just send me the ones you're getting rid of!

Sorce
 
Taking a look at the azalea Sorce just posted... I like the way the roots taper. I like the plant. I don't think the roots and the plants belong together :) Why would the roots grow in a perfect column, and then at the soil line take an immediate 45 degree turn to the left? It makes no "natural" sense to me... and so it looks to me like an interesting exercise in horticulture, but not a convincing bonsai.

To me, my criteria for excellent bonsai is that it takes me away (mentally / emotionally) to mother nature. It doesn't have to be literally "natural". But it needs to create / suggest naturalness. Otherwise it is just a plant in a pot.

Plenty of "natural" exposed roots to look at as examples. How many of these look like they were formed over a 2 liter bottle? Or inside of a tube?

roots1.jpg

roots2.jpg

roots3.jpg

roots4.jpg
 
Maybe its where I live... But, all we have to do down here is take a look outside and we will see all kinds of things that are not suppose to happen... happening.
So, for me... I have to go with the ideal of what ever can happen, will happen in nature.

Here are some examples of strangler figs... Perhaps this is a case where all the examples shown so far are just styled as a Ficus is?

2267632131_7e4e9fac1a.jpg figtree-corner.jpg rainforest-strangler-fig-queensland-australia-b6j9nt.jpg C0033067-Strangler_fig_tree_Ficus_-SPL.jpg w-ChacalaTreeHouse03.jpg
 
Some more... what is cool about these is that after they suffocate the host tree and it dies off, and roots away, they form shapes that actually look a lot like the pics of the trees posted earlier. I think the first one was formed over a 2 liter bottle! LOL!


1_Nq_Y2isGe1DaxeKvljduFw.jpg 7334331.jpg images.jpg hollow-trunk-of-strangler-fig-greg-dimijian.jpg
 
Sawgrass has a point.

You know those awesome deadwood junipers that dominated the Artisan's Cup?

Doesn't happen around here. They're totally "unnatural. Lol! Why on earth would anyone say they're "natural"?

Ficus, too. They'll die "out in nature" here every winter.
 
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Sawgrass has a point.

You know those awesome deadwood junipers that dominated the Artisan's Cup?

Doesn't happen around here. They're totally "unnatural. Lol! Why on earth would anyone say they're "natural"?

Ficus, too. They'll die "out in nature" here every winter.

Do I sense your sarcasm?
Regardless, the problem I see is that every time one says something cannot happen in nature, we find out that it can in one form or another they can. Yes, perhaps Azealas cannot have a spiraling root mass, but does it matter? We use junipers to simulate pines when they rarely grow as such. The Japanese have been styling pines in a way for years that don't look like pines. We style maples, ficus and a whole list of other trees to look like sumos and they don't grow as such, we style weeping trees to look like willows, which don't grow as such, and we cascade trees that rarely if ever cascade. And the list goes on and on... pines shaped with s curves are ok, but ficus are not?

Some times I just think we should appreciate it for what it is and stop always questioning.

As far as the OP'S tree... roots don't have to have a radiating perfect nebari. Few trees in life actually have this as well. So, this is not natural either... but, I think the key is to have roots that look cohesive, what ever they are. The two pictures of my trees posted have roots exposed. They are both trees that naturally have this occurring in nature. Yet, I have had so many folks tell me they are not correct because they don't feel that they happen in nature?

So, for me then it really dwells into not what actually happens in nature, but what the notions are of what the viewer thinks is a good design to a tree. With the OP'S tree, I think we're the problem lies is that if all of the roots were similar and all over b the place... one might be able to say ok, this works because they are all this way and they support a similar story. They are cohesive. But, they are not this way... their are a few that are above ground going every direction, and at the very base, one's radiating... I think it would be better, if one or the other.
 
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The neagari style has really nothing to do with "natural." It is an archaic, symbolic style, that references the mythical world, not the natural one.

The flowing, tentacles of the roots are like a phoenix' multi-feathered tail. In Chinese (and Japanese) mythology, the phoenix is symbolic of peace and other good things. The long flowing tail is one part of the bird's five-part body with its own separate significance.

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/ho-oo-phoenix.shtml

Similar symbolic use is in root stands used with bonsai displays.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7134609_chinese-qing-carved-root-boxwood-stand
 
Maybe its where I live... But, all we have to do down here is take a look outside and we will see all kinds of things that are not suppose to happen... happening.
So, for me... I have to go with the ideal of what ever can happen, will happen in nature.

Maybe it's just me... but these examples look real. Versus some of the example bonsai do not. I want to respond with more time but I am cooking dinner :) I want to show what I mean when I say bonsai has to feel natural... but doesn't have to BE natural. The argument that I have with SOME of the exposed root examples is they don't FEEL natural - at all (at least to me).
 
You know those awesome deadwood junipers that dominated the Artisan's Cup?

Doesn't happen around here. They're totally "unnatural. Lol! Why on earth would anyone say they're "natural"?

Oh, Really? Maybe because you somewhere they don't have desert or alpine climate? See Randy Knights collected trees. See Ryan Neils trees. See Dan and Steves trees. See Andy Smiths trees, etc, etc. SOME have dead wood added but is easy to tell what is original and what is "new". Yamadori Junipers are largely collected exactly because of their dead wood. Man cultivated Junipers have man made deadwood. You really need to get out a lot more and actually talk to these folks instead of blowing much hot air from ignorance:rolleyes:.
 
Oh, Really? Maybe because you somewhere they don't have desert or alpine climate? See Randy Knights collected trees. See Ryan Neils trees. See Dan and Steves trees. See Andy Smiths trees, etc, etc. SOME have dead wood added but is easy to tell what is original and what is "new". Yamadori Junipers are largely collected exactly because of their dead wood. Man cultivated Junipers have man made deadwood. You really need to get out a lot more and actually talk to these folks instead of blowing much hot air from ignorance:rolleyes:.
Lol!!!

Dude, my point is what looks "natural" to one person might not look natural to another based upon their personal location and experience.

I live in Georgia. We don't have the kind of conditions that creates long lasting deadwood. If a branch dies here, it doesn't bleach out and harden, it either rots due to the humidity and rains, or termites or other bugs eat it. So, a yamadori juniper with deadwood doesn't appear to be "natural". At least to the locals. Fact is, many of the trees from out West won't live very long in our area.

To a large degree, bonsai is art. You may not like some styles of art. Picassi's "cubism" style, for example. Is it natural? I don't think so. I've never seen any natural object resemble the images Picasdo rendered when painting them in a "cubist" style. Maybe you like cubism. Maybe you don't. Some people do.
They like it, and don't care whether it looks "natural" or not.

Just like some bonsai styles!
 
all this discussion is interesting but not sure if it's really helpful for the OP. If i had one advice to give him if he is beginning with bonsai, it would be that for now he should not be too concerned about how the tree looks and concentrate on cultivation for one or 2 years and how to keep his tree strong and growing, what is not as trivial as we think when we begin. You cannot bonsai a weak or dead tree, so learn how to keep it strong and then you will think about what to do to improve it.
 
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