Pond baskets/colanders to be used on tropicals. Yes or no?

[BK Bonsai]

@LanceMac10 I get it that colanders and pond baskets are relatively small, but what if you take the same concept and apply it in a larger scale such as some of @Vance Wood large grow boxes with the mesh walls. Would that still be counter productive towards a thicker trunk and fine feeder roots? I believe that the size of the tree you're putting in the colander is important if you're aiming for a thicker trunk and great roots. I wouldn't put a tree with a 2inch diameter trunk in a colander and expect it to thicken, but I would also believe that if I take a small cutting and grow it in a 1 foot diameter colander it would develop a quicker trunk and better roots than in a regular 1 foot diameter plastic nursery pot. Do you agree?

 

[aml1014]

The probem with the grow bags is that they sit flat on whatever surface you put them on. This causes a lot pooling water and a mat of roots will form on the bottom.

I'm doing an experiment with fabric pots placed of wire shelving to see if it improves the air pruning of the bottom.

That's a good idea to put them on wire shelving I may just try that.

I've tried these for a few seasons, and they do seem to have the benefits you described. I have a couple of minor complaints about them.

1. I usually need to cut them down to a shallower version. Other wise, with a small amount of soil in the bag, the lower parts of the tree are shaded by the sides. The plus side of them is that they're easier to cut down than plastic nursery pots.
2. The soft sides make them more difficult to move when using for heavier trees. Some come with handles, but then, see #1 - they usually don't stay.
3. The outsides often grow a layer of moss/algae. Since they are more difficult to move, the moss/algae usually ends up on my shirt or pants.

Brian

Instead of cutting the bags I've been rolling the sides down to just above soil level, that way it's similar to just another nursery pot.

Aaron

 

[GroveKeeper]

i mean, i just don't think those things will benefit tropicals. ficus roots grow in air. this was like 5ft long.

It probably depends on the type of tropical. I've not seen my scheffleras rooting through the sides of a colander.

Also, even aerial roots will dry and die off if they don't receive some moisture.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

In winter, I put tropicals (nearly all Ficus retusa microcarpa) in pond baskets and put those in large open plastic bins full of cat litter (DE) in a south facing window. They come of of winter healthier than they go into it...but I'm still not going to keep them indoors year round.

 

[BK Bonsai]

i mean, i just don't think those things will benefit tropicals. ficus roots grow in air. this was like 5ft long.

Thanks for your response. Ok, maybe we can rule out tropicals that grow aerial roots such as ficus and schefflera, but what about jades and dwarf black olives? And what kind of effect do you think it will have on a dawn redwood?

 

[carp]

Thanks for your response. Ok, maybe we can rule out tropicals that grow aerial roots such as ficus and schefflera, but what about jades and dwarf black olives? And what kind of effect do you think it will have on a dawn redwood?

jade don't need roots to grow...so i don't see what form of benefit you would expect to gain. i have had pieces of portulacaria laying on the ground for months that show growth with no roots. not vigorous growth, but the foliage is nice and green and a few sets of leaves will open from time to time.

black olives are touchy about their roots and i don't really enjoy them, so who knows. they theoretically would benefit more than a ficus would i guess.

 

[carp]

i think agreeing that trees that form aerial roots wouldn't benefit is a reasonable decision.

 

[carp]

[filler]

 

[JoeR]

[filler]

Carp, out of curiosity, what is your favorite ficus? Or favorite tropical in general, and why?


I know you work with top quality trees.


I am buying a ficus soon and am thinking about a Willow Leaf Ficus.

 

[LanceMac10]

@LanceMac10 I get it that colanders and pond baskets are relatively small, but what if you take the same concept and apply it in a larger scale such as some of @Vance Wood large grow boxes with the mesh walls. Would that still be counter productive towards a thicker trunk and fine feeder roots? I believe that the size of the tree you're putting in the colander is important if you're aiming for a thicker trunk and great roots. I wouldn't put a tree with a 2inch diameter trunk in a colander and expect it to thicken, but I would also believe that if I take a small cutting and grow it in a 1 foot diameter colander it would develop a quicker trunk and better roots than in a regular 1 foot diameter plastic nursery pot. Do you agree?

I agree to a point...you might not need that big of a container. Don't "overpot"......unless I'm there!!

And "quicker" AIN'T "bonsai"....

 

[carp]

Carp, out of curiosity, what is your favorite ficus? Or favorite tropical in general, and why?
I know you work with top quality trees.
I am buying a ficus soon and am thinking about a Willow Leaf Ficus.

as far as ficus bonsai goes, the best are Ficus salicaria, Ficus microcarpa 'Kinmen', Ficus natalensis, Ficus burt davyi 'nana' and Ficus microcarpa 'Green Island.

 

[JoeR]

as far as ficus bonsai goes, the best are Ficus salicaria, Ficus microcarpa 'Kinmen', Ficus natalensis, Ficus burt davyi 'nana' and Ficus microcarpa 'Green Island.

Interesting. I was looking at salicaria, green island, and melon seed.


I have never even heard of kinmen.


How are they the best, if you dont mind?

 

[Anthony]

To test for ability to thicken in a pot -

Allow a branch to extend 3' to 6' to 10', observe the trunk, measure.
If nothing happens, ground grow.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[carp]

Interesting. I was looking at salicaria, green island, and melon seed.
I have never even heard of kinmen.
How are they the best, if you dont mind?

Kinmen is a tigerbark microcarpa with smaller leaves, not as small as Melon Seed, but Melon Seed grows slowly.
Melon Seed is primarily only good for grafting or making Mame and Shohin imo.
they don't like to stay green either...the foliage seems to always want to be slightly yellow.

Green Island (round leaf) can be nice. they can dieback at times as if the tree finds it easier to push a new bud rather than pushing axilary buds in the branch. i think it only happens with weak trees though. the leaf reduces nicely and looks good when it is reduced. the bark is kind of boring, but it has an interesting purple hue to it.

Salicaria has a great leaf shape and responds well to all sorts of abuse.
it's just a super well rounded species in the way that it can be styled in just about any manner.
i think it makes the best single trunked ficus bonsai.


Natalensis grows super quick.
throws roots from everywhere that can be used to fuse to the trunk.
i repotted a Natalensis in 2014, and cut through a root that was about 3" wide, and from the root it sent out about 100 more.
i think you could create that signature Ebihara nebari with this species.
responds too indoor conditions well.
leaves reduce well, smaller than dimes if u stay on top of it.

Davyi 'nana' has a tiny leaf, interesting bark texture and grows fast enough.
not my favorite, but a lot of people like it.

 

[JoeR]

Kinmen is a tigerbark microcarpa with smaller leaves, not as small as Melon Seed, but Melon Seed grows slowly.
Melon Seed is primarily only good for grafting or making Mame and Shohin imo.
they don't like to stay green either...the foliage seems to always want to be slightly yellow.

Green Island (round leaf) can be nice. they can dieback at times as if the tree finds it easier to push a new bud rather than pushing axilary buds in the branch. i think it only happens with weak trees though. the leaf reduces nicely and looks good when it is reduced. the bark is kind of boring, but it has an interesting purple hue to it.

Salicaria has a great leaf shape and responds well to all sorts of abuse.
it's just a super well rounded species in the way that it can be styled in just about any manner.
i think it makes the best single trunked ficus bonsai.


Natalensis grows super quick.
throws roots from everywhere that can be used to fuse to the trunk.
i repotted a Natalensis in 2014, and cut through a root that was about 3" wide, and from the root it sent out about 100 more.
i think you could create that signature Ebihara nebari with this species.
responds too indoor conditions well.
leaves reduce well, smaller than dimes if u stay on top of it.

Davyi 'nana' has a tiny leaf, interesting bark texture and grows fast enough.
not my favorite, but a lot of people like it.

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I have never read about the distinctions of different ficus' species, mostly because little exists on it.


I had no idea melon seed grew that slow. Changes my opinion on them.


I just dont care for the way the leaves look on natalensis; reminds me of oak leaves. But they may look better reduced, never seen them reduced like you mentioned.


Also never heard of the dayvi nana; I will look into it

 

[carp]

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I have never read about the distinctions of different ficus' species, mostly because little exists on it.

depends on where you look and who you ask. like me. no one asks, so i have to keep up this persona of being a fucking troll.

 

[Anthony]

Seth,'

STOP this nonsense !!
Thou art not a troll.
Interesting person to read yes.

Might be your age with the combined knowledge, too much for the many.
Perhaps even embarrassing for us old folk - hummmm?????????????

Have a great day !
Gets his cork screw cane and hobbles away, very, very slowly.
Anthony

 

[jeanluc83]

I'm sure we can all agree that colanders/pond baskets are the most effective

I don't agree they are the most effective.......

I often wonder how much of this is based on true experience or just what people read and think happens. I'm not calling anyone out it is just an observation of many of the techniques discussed around here. People hold fast to their opinions on X topic but how much of that is backed up by experience.

Allow a branch to extend 3' to 6' to 10', observe the trunk, measure.
If nothing happens, ground grow.

You get people that say you cant thicken a trunk in a pot it will only happen in the ground. How many of these trees that don't thicken are allowed to extend growth and how many are cut back to keep them small. I have seen many examples of JBP that have lived their entire life in a pot and they have significant trunks. But you also see huge sacrifice branches to fuel this growth.

 

[jeanluc83]

i think agreeing that trees that form aerial roots wouldn't benefit is a reasonable decision.

Your evidence supports that they would not likely benefit from colander growing but I'm curious how they might behave in a less humid environment.

 

[sorce]

X topic

I been thinking about this since yesterday.......
Cuz there are some half truths....
Sometimes truths.....
And non truths....

Take putting a basket tree in the ground for example....to use all the tips to extend and fuel growth......
What happens if everything below your good nebari plane grows.....leaving you little from your good nebari. Thick brown.

Sure you'll get good growth.....but when it comes time to cut at the red line...to sit it flat in the pot....you are losing a lot of roots needed to support that top growth.

By creating so many tips before going in The ground...you lose a lot of control of your undersoil happenings.

I don't see Colanders as a tool to create a nice nebari ......as much as maintain it..

Or.....as in M. Frary's case.....get a lot of nebari options going..........but I don't see Thick nice surface roots forming with air pruning.....
As Length = Girth ......
For those rootless collects.....after a year in a colander.....I'd pull em....find my nebari plane.....prune to there, and put em in the ground. Basket or not...Probly basket. With a board on The bottom of the tree to prevent the sketched scenario.

So......you basically have to have a good nebari already.... Then a colander becomes an excellent maintenance tool.

Far as trunk thickening.....
Same thing....
Length=Girth
(not "to me" look at your trees.)
Length=girth

The air and water...."pumped through the roots like a turbocharger" as Mike puts it,
Definitely fuels excellent growth....

And trunks can be grown in pots....Colanders better.
If they lose vigor.....just put it in a bigger colander.

Got more. But gotta go!

Sorce