Pinching Vance Wood: the challenge

[Txhorticulture]

My guess and only a guess is that it is humidity's effect on heat. But humidity could be a factor in and of itself because high humidity permits different fungi, bacteria whatever to grow and an alpine plant doesn't have the adaptations to deal with that. I'm not fighting anyone just talking here

 

[Txhorticulture]

Then perhaps we should not be referring to USDA zones when talking about Mugo survivability.

Agree and not just with respect to mugo. USDA hardiness is not very descriptive of climate. It's just the lowest temp every year averaged over a period of years. (I want to say 15 or 20) there is a lot more to climate than that!

 

[0soyoung]

Doesnt have to be either or, it can be a combination of both. I know you know this, dont make a fight where there isnt one.

If you mean high temperture and/or low humidity, I agree. But I am pretty certain that you are are saying high humidity is a problem, which it isn't as far as how trees work is concerned.
High humidity has a negative effect only indirectly - pathogenic fungi, including molds, thrive in high humidity.

 

[0soyoung]

My guess and only a guess is that it is humidity's effect on heat. But humidity could be a factor in and of itself because high humidity permits different fungi, bacteria whatever to grow and an alpine plant doesn't have the adaptations to deal with that. I'm not fighting anyone just talking here

Plant's don't generate much heat, unlike mammals. So humidity doesn't really affect heat in any sense. Plants transpire by letting water evaporate thru stomata in the leafs. The lower the relative humidity the faster the plants transpire. Plants can limit this, to a certain extent, by closing the stomata. We've all seen plants droop because of this, though it is usually because the medium has dried out (i.e., water it asap).

Obviously I agree with what you've said about pathogens, though I consider that to be an 'indirect' effect.

 

[Txhorticulture]

Think we are mostly in agreement here. Good talk.

 

[Giga]

How bout we get back to junipers while I get a 2nd bowl of popcorn

 

[Vance Wood]

Well; after reading some of this since post #46 when it was the last time I had opportunity to respond, I seriously doubt that anything I have to say will be allowed to stand without some sort of derogatory and/or convoluted remark. It seem lately the recommended method of response is to vilify that which you disagree with, and assassinate the character of the author of said method or line of thinking. Weather allowing and my state of mind after being pretty well drained from this weekend, I will put this video together tomorrow. Regardless I do not plan on changing what I do and how I do it and the reasons I do it the way I do it.

 

[0soyoung]

I do not plan on changing what I do and how I do it and the reasons I do it the way I do it.

I certainly am one with no such expectation. I think we are wanting to know your 'pinching' technique and how it avoids eliminating runners before they even get going.

I don't think I am alone in eagerly awaiting your show and tell.

 

[Adair M]

Well; after reading some of this since post #46 when it was the last time I had opportunity to respond, I seriously doubt that anything I have to say will be allowed to stand without some sort of derogatory and/or convoluted remark. It seem lately the recommended method of response is to vilify that which you disagree with, and assassinate the character of the author of said method or line of thinking. Weather allowing and my state of mind after being pretty well drained from this weekend, I will put this video together tomorrow. Regardless I do not plan on changing what I do and how I do it and the reasons I do it the way I do it.

Vance, I would hazard to say that this thread has been relatively free of derogatory remarks. Sure, there has been some disagreement, but it's all been civil.

Take for example Wireme's photos of branches he pinched. I said that what he did was exactly what not to do. He responded that he was trying to increase ramification. So then I offered him an alternative method, and explained why it should be better.

All constructive conversation. No one called anyone names. Brian and I have been fortunate to have been able to work with people who have worked on the top juniper bonsai in the world. They shared their techniques with us. We, in turn, are sharing their techniques with anyone with an open mind via this forum.

 

[Vance Wood]

I don't recall mentioning that I pinch to eliminate the production of runners. Some times runners are necessary in stimulating weaker branches but once the branch is ramifying well the need to let runners run (?) is not necessary. New growth unless it is thick and really vigorous can be piched at profile. However once a year I go inside every pad and eliminate everything growing down from the bottom of the little branches and growing in the crotches. I do this with scissors, its quicker and more accurate. Getting your fingers into the inside of some of these pads to pull/pinch the growth at the crotches is nearly impossible for my hands to accomplish. I thin the pads to let light in, this stimulates growth on the inside of the pads. I try to treat every branchlet as a separate branch all its own and only marginally connected to its nearest neighbor.

This way you can produce a good profile without making it look like you have sheared the tree with a shear. However when it comes to the outside of the pads all growth that starts extending beyond the profile of the pad is pinched off close to the intended profile. I do not pinch as in biting of the growth between finger nails but I pinch as in grasping the intended victim between the pads of the fingers. I then pull outward and twist slightly causing the tip to break off or pull out of the socket between the scales. This will leave no brown ends.

If your attempts at doing this leaves you brown ends you are trying to pinch off growth that is too thick to pinch effectively and it should be cut back to the base with scissors, as some are describing. It seems that the debate today is one or the other; and that is farther from the truth and reality and necessity of culture s for those who do bonsai than helps anyone. You have to do both. The scissors only faction and missing half the battle and leaving less than stellar results.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Well; after reading some of this since post #46 when it was the last time I had opportunity to respond, I seriously doubt that anything I have to say will be allowed to stand without some sort of derogatory and/or convoluted remark. It seem lately the recommended method of response is to vilify that which you disagree with, and assassinate the character of the author of said method or line of thinking. Weather allowing and my state of mind after being pretty well drained from this weekend, I will put this video together tomorrow. Regardless I do not plan on changing what I do and how I do it and the reasons I do it the way I do it.

I didn't take you as someone who would back down from a challenge; much less, something this controversial.
I'd still really like you to show me what you're doing right...the process you use to pinch junipers: before, during, after.
Why are you arguing in favor of antiquated techniques, against world-renowned artists like Bjorn, Kathy, Peter Warren, Michael Hagedorn? What do you know that they don't?
Can you learn new tricks, or are you already doing them but are too hung up on the terminology? We want to know.
Don't make me bust out a.......triple-dog dare.

 

[Dav4]

Oooohhh! The triple dog dare! The coup de grace of all dares...no one can withstand a triple dog dare. Vance, he's got you.

 

[AboveBeyond]

Can someone just summarize for me what's in this thread? I just want to learn about bonsai techniques. I do like Brian's pics on the first page, that was helpful.

 

[A Random User]

It's funny, cause I didn't even know this post existed, seeing that I have the OP and majority of those who have posted here on ignore... came across it while I thought I was signed in. A hundred and eleven post on how Vance is wrong... and here I thought everyone was coming here for bonsai? Good to see Smoke, Dave and Brian here!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Can someone just summarize for me what's in this thread? I just want to learn about bonsai techniques. I do like Brian's pics on the first page, that was helpful.

Sure:
Post 1: my process, challenge to Vance.
Posts 2- 113: Static, noise, Mugos don't suck, banter, a show in MI, Vance might not show us.
And we await Vance's formal response to the challenge.

 

[coh]

Oooohhh! The triple dog dare! The coup de grace of all dares...no one can withstand a triple dog dare. Vance, he's got you.

Someone's gonna lose an eye, I tell ya!

 

[Dav4]

It's funny, cause I didn't even know this post existed, seeing that I have the OP and majority of those who have posted here on ignore... came across it while I thought I was signed in. A hundred and eleven post on how Vance is wrong... and here I thought everyone was coming here for bonsai? Good to see Smoke, Dave and Brian here!

I made your ignore list??? If so, it appears I'm in good company. Carry on...

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I made your ignore list??? If so, it appears I'm in good company. Carry on...

Huh?

 

[Nybonsai12]

I made your ignore list??? If so, it appears I'm in good company. Carry on...

Funny how one puts another on an ignore list, but then makes sure to post in their thread to announce they are ignoring them...

 

[Vance Wood]

Funny how one puts another on an ignore list, but then makes sure to post in their thread to announce they are ignoring them...

Not meaning to fan any flames but I do not use the ignore list. You are never going to agree with every body and the real trolls will lose interest after a while. So what's left. Talk to yourself? You can have discussions with those who agree with you and you can have arguments with those who don't and maybe you can come to agreement with each other on something.