Pick the front of this western juniper!

MichaelS said:
I just noticed this thread. Forgive Scott me but I must say I'm disappointed. Too me it has been tamed and civilized into another Japanese garden tree. There is a massive problem (as I see it) developing when we entrust these wild trees into the hands of modern Japanese-trained professionals who are completely out of original ideas. I think this tree should have been sat on for another few years and properly studied for the possibilities. As an example, were is the logic in bringing down the branches when the history of the tree (the old jins) are growing up? In my opinion, this reduces the authenticity of the final image. I hope I'm not too out of line in saying this Scott but that is the first thing I thought when I saw the last pic. Either way, it will of course be a high quality tree in anyone's eyes.
Click to expand...
Hello Michael.
I have seen you post a few times about an interesting idea of originality in Bonsai. I am rather new to this form of art and hoping you could share photos of your trees. As I often see the Japanese form of Bonsai and would appreciate the visual input. Thank you.
 
MichaelS said:
I just noticed this thread. Forgive Scott me but I must say I'm disappointed. Too me it has been tamed and civilized into another Japanese garden tree. There is a massive problem (as I see it) developing when we entrust these wild trees into the hands of modern Japanese-trained professionals who are completely out of original ideas. I think this tree should have been sat on for another few years and properly studied for the possibilities. As an example, were is the logic in bringing down the branches when the history of the tree (the old jins) are growing up? In my opinion, this reduces the authenticity of the final image. I hope I'm not too out of line in saying this Scott but that is the first thing I thought when I saw the last pic. Either way, it will of course be a high quality tree in anyone's eyes.
Click to expand...

Thanks Michael for your thoughts. I really do respect your opinion and appreciate how you challenge convention. Although I hesitate to respond because I'm not that interested in another naturalistic vs Japanese styling debate, I will make a few points.
  1. I like many trees described as naturalistic. Many are quite beautiful. I appreciate them for what they are and I like that they break with convention. When this is pulled off effectively, I've seen it produce a powerful and evocative image.
  2. I like many trees with typical "bonsai" styling. I have no problem fashioning a tree in this way if it complements the features of the tree I'd like to accentuate - in this case the massive shari, deadwood, and mature live veins snaking up the trunk.
  3. I believe that there are natural motifs of trees that are relatively unexplored in bonsai because these kind of trees are just not found in Japan. Redwoods and Bald Cypress, for instance, both have a uniquely American habit that some have found ways to express in bonsai. Live Oak and elm are others. I have a couple of Bald Cypress myself that I'm attempting to use to express the cypress swamps growing all over the US Gulf Coast. And I'm sure that there are trees in your area that are uniquely Australian.
  4. I believe that the Japanese have room to grow as well. Even classic subjects such as Japanese Black Pine have room to motivate. Typical Japanese styling captures one expression of their growth habit quite well, I think. But some of the black pines growing on the beach have a powerful upright form that I do not often see represented in bonsai, for whatever the reason.
 
chicago1980 said:
Did you collect this tree?! Awesome tree, what made you choose the current front?
Click to expand...

Hi C -

The factors that led to this choice of front were:
  1. The strong movement to the right on the lower part of the trunk
  2. Visibility of the old jins from the front
  3. Width of the nebari
  4. Movement of the live veins and a desire to not see a straight trunk, or straight live veins from the front of the tree
 
Th
markyscott said:
Hi C -

The factors that led to this choice of front were:
  1. The strong movement to the right on the lower part of the trunk
  2. Visibility of the old jins from the front
  3. Width of the nebari
  4. Movement of the live veins and a desire to not see a straight trunk, or straight live veins from the front of the tree
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
chicago1980 said:
Hello Michael.
I have seen you post a few times about an interesting idea of originality in Bonsai. I am rather new to this form of art and hoping you could share photos of your trees. As I often see the Japanese form of Bonsai and would appreciate the visual input. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Hi chicago1980,

I have been growing trees from scratch since the late 80's. I have always revered the Japanese way and have shaped my trees according to their set of aesthetic values for all but a few of those years.

These are examples of that......
:http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/procumbens-re-worked.23854/
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/some-juniper-maintenance.24207/

Because I like pines and junipers so much and because we don't have access to the yamadori type of trees they have in the northern hemisphere, I have needed to grow my own from seeds. This takes about 2 decades to get the kind of size which is satisfying enough to look at so I am just now starting to work on them. The last couple of years I have had an epiphany about the possibilities that we have in shaping trees like they really grow (I'm talking about conifers mainly now) and not some superficial idea on what ''looks nice'' to us. I believe that this is where the future of bonsai lies and also where the ''art'' of bonsai lies. I have also quickly realised that to achieve that elusive natural look will take much longer than what I have been doing so far. Longer because every tree instantly becomes a unique piece and not another copy of a thousand others for which the blueprint is well and truly set. There is no more blueprint. Every branch and every twig will need careful consideration as to placement and future growth. It will need a flexible plan from which we can go back and for future reference. As the growth of the tree will be the real master rather than the wants of the creator, there will be inevitable and unexpected changes to plan going forward. But the basics are that we will need to use a much less intrusion and probably much less use of wire.
By the way, this is not new idea and I am collecting many quotes from Japanese authors which support this idea. However, it seems that there is some difficulty among the Japanese with this concept because many references to ''natural'' form are still using the kind of image I now find artificial.

So, the trees that I have shaped using traditional (classic or modern or whatever) concepts will remain in that direction but with any new material I put my hands on now, I will go out of my way to avoid the stereotypical ''bonsai'' image.

In this thread ..... http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/new-directions-in-pines.25318/
I have tried to show what kind of direction I am taking with some material I have grown. There are many many others which I will post in the future. It is difficult to put aside pre conceived ideas and I'm just really starting.
There are few other people that I know of doing this. I wish there were more who would talk about it. Walter Pall has made some interesting in-roads with some of his trees.
 
markyscott said:
Yes, but not today.

Scott
Click to expand...
Would you be able to recommend any bonsai gardens or Nursey in the area?

I am visiting for a week in December, and would love to visit a garden.

Also, any bonsai vendors who may deal in collected trees.

Thank you for any direction!
 
chicago1980 said:
Would you be able to recommend any bonsai gardens or Nursey in the area?

I am visiting for a week in December, and would love to visit a garden.

Also, any bonsai vendors who may deal in collected trees.

Thank you for any direction!
Click to expand...

Hi C. I’d suggest Timeless Trees in Rosenberg, TX just outside of Houston. They’re open on Fridays and Saturdays. They have quite a few collected bald cypress.

S
 
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