Peter Warren's Interview - A Canadian perspective

Chris,

You had to go and spoil it with your closing remarks. Your closing remarks are indeed out of context, when looking at the entire purview in which Peter made that statement. 5 points deduction and 5 minutes in the corner ;)

I purposely left that portion out so as to avoid a public display of chest pumping which is contrary to the quiet humility that Peter was trying to convey.
 
Last edited:
Chris,

You had to go and spoil it with your closing remarks. Your closing remarks are indeed out of context, when looking at the entire purview in which Peter made that statement. 5 points deduction and 5 minutes in the corner ;)

I purposely left that portion out so as to avoid a public display of chest pumping which is contrary to the quiet humility that Peter was trying to convey.

To be fair, I was thumping Boon's chest. He has that affect on people. Sorry I stole your thunder...Were you going to wait until page 20 to spring it on us?
 
I never intended to post it because intuitively I knew it would generate the displayed response.
 
Ri

So you are right, telling to everybody who practice bonsai, that they are doing nothing but art, is very narrow minded.

There are many people who paint, some for relaxation, some for the joy, some for release, but they all are practicing an art form, just at different levels. What they think doesn't change this fact.

Whatever the reason a person practices bonsai, they are still engaged in an art form, like it or not. Peter may deny the fact, but his creations speak otherwise. If Monet denied being an artist, would it make it true?

Hardly narrow minded. I'd say denying the obvious is more narrow minded.

Will
 
Last edited:
Has anyone that responded actually met Peter or had in-depth conversations with him to truly know what was between the lines of the on-line interview? Or is it all purely speculation and wild ass guesses???
 
Rick, you are right,
People practice bonsai for different reasons.
This is so very true...In fact, working with 'live trees' as bonsai tends to place so many limitations and restrictions on one, according to many practitioners, that I prefer to do 'art using live trees', rather than doing 'bonsai'...I also prefer the term 'artistic potted trees' instead of 'bonsai', due to the limitations others place on me if I call my work bonsai...

For me, I practice bonsai for the love of working with live trees. If the material that I work with is not entirely from the same tree, the result means nothing for me. A plastic tree, no matter how artistic, would be entirely worthless and would not touch my soul. I see it as low Kitsch.
I too enjoy working with 'live trees', but as a medium not as a controlled belief...

So you are right, telling to everybody who practice bonsai, that they are doing nothing but art, is very narrow minded. To some, it may well be nothing but an artistic endeavour. But I personally know many who feel very different. Bonsai is not painting. Bonsai is not sculpture. They have common ground, but bonsai is very unique in that it is alive.

When you come to love a live thing, that's very different from loving a dead thing. A live thing reacts to your actions on its own. A dead thing doesn't.
Very well stated...As long as there is at least a part of my art which remains alive, growing, and changing, then I shall continue to have that same feeling toward it...To be really honest, I even have stronger feelings toward some of the trees in my collection that might be considered "low Kistch", due to the way I have been able to create an illusion using painting and sculpture tools and techniques along with the 'living tree'...This is not true for the 'pipe cleaner' landscape which is my avatar...Even though it was declared a contest winner it still does not grow and change...It is there to be enjoyed, and I certainly do, but it is totally different...

Sure, I want my trees to be artistic, that is a given. But first and foremost, I want my trees to evoke the mystery of life. The dignity and power of a living thing.
Here again I fully agree...I too desire for my trees to "evoke the mystery of life", and even if a portion of it is created by artificial means, IF it evokes the feeling of 'life', age, struggle, or beauty, I have been successful...

To me, bonsai is much much more than just art. It is a state of mind. Art is just a mere tool that I use. Art is part of my bonsai, but my bonsai is infinitely more than art. People who feel the same, they understand. People who don't, it's like trying to explain color to a blind man. Or trying to explain religious faith to an atheist. You either feel it, or you don't.
Back to your first statement "Rick, you are right, People practice bonsai for different reasons"...

I did enjoy reading the interview with Mr. Peter, and it did confirm many thoughts I have on the subject of bonsai as practiced by the different cultures and people throughout the world...I also appreciate the well written post here, and the thoughts being expressed in this discussion...We all have different reasons, and methods of enjoying bonsai...I am thankful there remains a place we can openly discuss the differences...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
 
Thank you Behr for your kind words. I know you have been following this thread with interest. I am also glad these venues permit us to openly discuss significant matters in reasonable fashion.
 
Whatever the reason a person practices bonsai, they are still engaged in an art form, like it or not. Peter may deny the fact, but his creations speak otherwise. If Monet denied being an artist, would it make it true?

Hardly narrow minded. I'd say denying the obvious is more narrow minded.

Will

I agree, I am engaged in an art form. Not only I am not denying it, but I actually stated that in my post.

My point though is this: bonsai to me is much more than art. Art is just one part of it. Bonsai has many other aspects that have nothing to do with art. If it was only art, then I would not practice bonsai. If my goal was to be an artist, I would have done some other art form. I would rather not think about art at all, and let it happen incidentally.

I admire artists such as Hans. He only cares about creating a bonsai. As soon as he is done, he doesn't need the tree anymore. He needs to go on to create another one. That's what artists do: obsessed with creation. They don't sit down and admire their own creation every day.

I don't do bonsai that way. I love creating it, but that's just the beginning. To me, the most important thing is my daily interaction with the trees. Spending time with them. Which is not what art is about.

If, by a stroke of luck, I create a great bonsai and someone calls me artist, I am not going to argue that or deny it. They can call me whatever they want.
 
Last edited:
Hi Behr,

I have the impression that you responded to my post as if it was Rick's. Which is flattering, but I thought that I mention it. :)

No sir Mr. Attila, I fully realized the post which I commented on was a result of your thoughts and words...I do appreciate your opinion on all things concerning bonsai...I consider you as a very 'level-headed' and educated person, well worth reading...Just like Mr. Rick and many others, I can't always agree with every opinion, but I do learn from all...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)
 
I admire artists such as Hans. He only cares about creating a bonsai. As soon as he is done, he doesn't need the tree anymore. He needs to go on to create another one. That's what artists do: obsessed with creation. They don't sit down and admire their own creation every day.

QUOTE]

Oh my dear Attila,
you could not be further from the truth here my friend. And that is just why I stay away from these word games on forums, people might get the wrong impresion of who or what I am. Attila You must have seen my website, my blog or my interview, you know that almost all my trees are made by my self from raw material and worked on for almost all my bonsai live to get them to wear I envisioned them to be beautiful. I hardly ever sold one of my trees and if I have don so it is to close friends, with a lot of pain in my heart. I live and breath bonsai and every spare moment is spent with them! I live for bonsai and enjoy every moment I spend with my trees, from my better work right trough some silly Tanuki's and cuttings I made. Even last night (2 in the night) when it was storming here, I went out side with a torch to check up on them and forgot the time because the trees look so cool in the dark when you shine light on them! silly maybe, but I really love my trees, my work, my art. And I am not obsessed with creating bonsai, but obsessed with the art, with the live that bonsai has created for me! And believe me I sit down to just enjoy my trees and reflect on what was and what will be in there and my bonsai future. And yes I love to create, but isn't that what bonsai is or needs, they don't crow like bonsai there selves, as you know! Again the suggestion is forwarded that all bonsai artist are just working machines that don't care for anything deeper in bonsai than wiring and selling of trees. Again you could not be further from the truth with your assumptions of what I stand for or believe in in bonsai Attila. So I think I just stick to what it is all about in bonsai, I'm better in that, and letters don't make bonsai, i do. I am of to work, late already, but had to react!
CU all,
Hans.
 
I've started this thread and feel compelled to clarify it's full intent and meaning. I do not have to do so but in retrospect, handcuffed by the improprieties of political correctness, I failed to convey my thoughts clearly.

This is my opinion of what was said subtly and with candour in Peter's interview. You do not have to accept my point of view, as it is just my opinion. But as stated, allot can be learned from Peter's interview if we chose to accept its full meaning and put it into practice.

I sent the following e-mail to Hans yesterday in order to explain where I was coming from. I share this with you:

Hans

My review did not reflect what I really wanted to say because I was handcuffed with trying to be politically correct, and in doing so I may have very well made myself look like a fool.

What I really wanted to say, of which you have allured to in a roundabout way, has to deal more specifically with Americans vice the West. I tried to correct a misinterpretation by pointing to North America, to little avail.

Americans need to be the best in the world on all fronts, that is an unfortunate side of their culture. This is seen on many fronts. I spent 32 1/2 years in the Navy, travelled the world and have seen this type of attitude first hand, and not restricted to bonsai, it is an unpleasant side effect to an otherwise brilliant culture.

As you know the thirst for recognition is unquenchable, and keeps popping up every time we turn around, just take the America versus Europe contest, which in the end included other parts of the world as not to isolate any practicing body, but the original intent was quite clear based on discussion throughout cyberspace.

There exist many a talented artists in the States and as you mentioned the States have progressed in leaps and bounds considering the short time they have been at this hobby. What is seen and mentioned by you and Walter, is the serious (I hate that word) artist are indeed humble and allow their works to speak for themselves, instead of raising them on pedestal as we too often see. This is the point I was trying to make and one at which I failed miserably in conveying and one of which leaves us (me anyway) with a foul taste in our mouths.

Irene raised a couple of good points in that we should never relinquish our individual cultures for another one. I totally support that argument and I believe so do you. We should all be proud of who we are. Having said that I do embrace the statement that we should look at other cultures and learn from them, taking the good and leaving the bad, to enrich are own and improve upon it. That does not necessarily mean giving up ones culture or individuality. It means improving for the betterment of all mind kind.

When I stated that today's society is seeking instant gratification, that unfortunately is indeed a fact of the world we live in today and is not isolated to bonsai unfortunately. When taking into the context of bonsai, instant gratification to get there quicker, to show the world we can, and are better than, IMO that is wrong and practicing bonsai for the wrong reasons. This once again IMO is doing bonsai for the wrong reasons, where the destination is more important than the journey. When Attila raised a point in "Are you serious about bonsai", well I sort of lost it. Because IMO, the point was raised out of context. We all know the best way of achieving a better bonsai is through collected material, Europe have been doing it for many years and are indeed the envy of the Eastern world (also mentioned). This envy is paramount over the often seen salivation of available yamadori in the US. The point Peter was trying to convey IMO was in order to produce bonsai in the shortest possible time was to use collected material, but as we know if time is not a factor, then it is not the only way, and hence based on the entire interview, the bonsai journey is more important than the destination, regardless of when the destination occurs providing the journey has been a fulfilling one.

I have followed your work but for a short time now, and albeit a short time, I know you enjoy the journey. I know you are producing trees that come from within vice going through mechanical motions. In saying that I believe you can support this statement: "If it is worth doing then let's do it right" and that is the wisdom I came out with from reading Peter's interview. Understand the meaning behind what you are doing, and do it. But in order to do so IMO, you need to go back to the roots of the hobby, find its faults and improve on them, so in the end hopefully create better bonsai.

When it comes to displays, the Japanese have a very profound way and reason for doing certain things, once again Peter allures to this. He also states that their is nothing wrong with changing things to suit individual and cultural settings, as long as the balance is maintained. Following your achievements, having attended a school of fine arts, I know you completely understand Peter's meaning.

In closing, I thank this opportunity to express truly where I come from. Bonsai should indeed be practice at any level, unencumbered and done right, and we should all embrace the raptures of its journey, regardless of what that journey is.

If I offended you that was not my intent and extend my most sincere apologies. In retrospect I do not apologize for my review, but the way in which I portrayed my beliefs under the improprieties of political correctness.

Kindest regards,
Rick


Stereotyping any society is wrong, regardless of the intent. It is unfortunate that in every walks of life, there exist certain individuals which will indeed portrait entire societies and cultures in a bad light.

In closing, as stated above I apologize if I offended anyone, it was not and is not my intent. My intent is quite clear. Let's take out the good and leave the bad behind, in the pursuit of our passion which is creating good bonsais, which in turn we can be proud of. Bow in humility to their majestic presence, while allowing the world to be captivated by their beauty and artistic representation unencumbered.

To me that is what bonsai is all about.
 
As you know the thirst for recognition is unquenchable, and keeps popping up every time we turn around, just take the America versus Europe contest, which in the end included other parts of the world as not to isolate any practicing body, but the original intent was quite clear based on discussion throughout cyberspace.

One correction...

The North American vs Europe contest was exactly that, no other parts of the world were included. I managed this contest and I posted every entry that was submitted, there was no compromises.

I wrote an article about this remarkable contest that was published in BCI and Bonsai Focus, the original intent of the contest was indeed the focus of the articles as well as the ending results. The most amazing thing is that Walter Pall took the grand prize for Europe, with a tree from America.

Now that was funny,



Will
 
Oh my dear Attila,
you could not be further from the truth here my friend.

You are right, I had no idea about this side of yours.
Now I know, and I promise that I will never accuse you again of "being an artist who only cares about creating bonsai and not much beyond that".

It's amazing how different people are, from the impression they make on Internet. Sometimes it's a game of hide and seek.
But I appreciate for correcting me, it's always nice to get to know the real person.
 
Stereotyping any society is wrong, regardless of the intent. It is unfortunate that in every walks of life, there exist certain individuals which will indeed portrait entire societies and cultures in a bad light.

I find this quote as very important.
Stereotyping is always an insult to the individuals of a group.

Budi Sulistyo said a few days ago on another forum:

"Bonsai is not just about trees, but it is also about making us a better person". (I am not quoting, but paraphrasing his thought). He said this in the context of whether or not it is ethical to use false deadwood. He said that as long as it is disclosed, it is fine, but if the bonsaist lies about it, then it it against the spirit of bonsai.

Again, Budi was talking about bonsai not just as a means of creating miniature treees, but also as a way to become a better human being.
I find this a very powerful thought.

I bet that in the heat of these Internet debates, where we are scrambling to come out as a winner in every single debate, none of us thought about bonsai this way.
 
You are right, I had no idea about this side of yours.
Now I know, and I promise that I will never accuse you again of "being an artist who only cares about creating bonsai and not much beyond that".

It's amazing how different people are, from the impression they make on Internet. Sometimes it's a game of hide and seek.
But I appreciate for correcting me, it's always nice to get to know the real person.


Hans is a fantastic true Artist and a true fun to chat with human as well!
He brings joy to us when he comes into chat....
And he is also teaching us his language! Hallo Hans!
He does not shy away from the truth on his feelings as well and will answer any questions we may have!
Mom
 
Again, Budi was talking about bonsai not just as a means of creating miniature trees, but also as a way to become a better human being.
I find this a very powerful thought.

I bet that in the heat of these Internet debates, where we are scrambling to come out as a winner in every single debate, none of us thought about bonsai this way.

Yes Budi and many of his peers feel this way. In light of this discussion I am not sure how to table this wisdom but indeed it is the way I see and practice bonsai.
 
Back
Top Bottom