Hi,
My previous post was around trying to understand the differences between Satsuki and Kurume and their bonsai potential. Obviously different genetics and the desire to only grow Satsukis is like the gurus on this site only growing Japanese Black Pine and no other pine.
So, I am lead to believe from a guru or 2 on this site that if I don’t let Satsukis flower I get twice the ramification.
I don't think anyone here said that That's why I made a large post, in part asking for clarification. What do people mean with 'second flush of growth'? To me, this is wrong. Shoots came from auxilllary buds at the base of the flower. Those shoots could be 1 to 5 cm when you remove the flowers. These first flush shoots aren't going to develop a second flush of shoots from their auxillary buds, giving you a second round of ramification when you remove the flower 1 to 5 cm down the branch. The flower isn't inhibiting dormant auxillary buds. The apical shoots of the (first) flush of growth is.
Or the other version is the “energy” BS makes the plant use it all to flower and not so strong growth after. Am I totally wrong with the idea that I shouldn’t have any flowers for the first 5-10 years to build an Azalea bonsai faster?
Can someone help out here as I am learning lots from this thread?
Charles
The azalea is trying to spend energy to create flowers. You can prevent that energy being spend by pruning, which takes away energy. Are you taking away less than you are saving? I don't think anyone knows. You cannot inject energy into a plant. You can only take it away. And you can redirect it. And to redirect it, you have to take away some energy. How does a plant generate the most energy? You let it grow grow grow uninhibited; sun, water, some fertilizer, and no pruning. Then when you have this very strong growth, you can come in and prune back hard to get the design you want. Exactly as Warren demonstrated in his second video.
What you don't do is: prune a little every spring and then a little bit again every summer, and then prune in autumn to prevent flowering. And doing this every year. Then, take away half the roots and prune some more. And then prune back all the new growth immediately as it gets too long, always keeping your bonsai silhouette. I can't tell you if this will kill a bonsai, yes or no. But this is physiologically not logical to do. And everyone that works on azalea bonsai always goes through cycles of uninhibited growth followed by hard pruning. This makes both physiological sense and gives bonsai people the results they have.
You can't go in with a magical secret trick, like removing the flower with perfect timing, and improve the plants health and vigor by a lot. Plant will try to make flowers. There is no way to stop it without damaging the plant. (Removing the apical tips in september is a form of damage, so is any form of pruning). Once the flower buds are there, yes they will take some energy and water. But no one can tell you exactly how much. So if you feel like, you can remove them. Autumn or spring, neither will confuse the plant. Will it help? Maybe a tiny bit? Will it hurt? very unlikely. Could it speed up growth a bit? Potentially. The leaves underneath the flowers get less sunlight and the flowers evaporate more water than ordinary leaves. This is a marginal discussion, which is why it is not clear what the effect is. Yet to us humans, flowers are important. I have even seen some people say that if the azalea sets seed, it will exhaust the plant and it will flower less or not at all. I can tell you, this is false as well. Does it take extra energy to produce seeds? Has it any meaningful effect? No. Should you remove the flowers so no seed sets on your bonsai? If you can spend the time, then yes. Do seeds set on satsuki bonasi in Japan because the growers there can't pay enough attention to every flower on every plant, to make sure to remove all the flowers/fruits? Yes! Seeds do sometimes set. Are their trees the best? Yes!
Then, for a proper bonsai display. You NEED to remove flowers. There are too many. This is an aesthetic discussion. So it is subjective. But I myself like to see layers of foliage between layers of flowers on an azalea bonsai. If you look at displayed bonsai that are highly rated, the flowers are only kept at specific positions on the flower pads. And that decision to remove or keep flowers may even be influenced by the knowledge of how much flowers on a certain branch tend to sport. The more or a traditional bonsai the tree is, the less flowers it will have. Meika style trees often don't have layers and only have flowers removed to create some space. This technique is indeed called
mesuki and can be done at any time after all flower buds are set, up to when you display your bonsai. Different cultivar also produce a different amount of flower buds at each terminal bud. So likely, there are too many flowers and they will indeed be pushing into each other. You can see this in my azalea pictures as I do not remove any flowers. So for aesthetic reasons you wan to:
1) Create more space for individual flowers
2) Create (horizontal) layers with foliage space inbetween
And this debate on 'special timings'. Aza;ea bonsai nurseries in Japan have many plants Even if there would be a special timing, there is no practical way for them to hit it because then they would have to remove flowers, or repot, or prune, all their plants, all the same action, all at the same time. They can't, so they don't. And they have the best trees.
