Mt Maple - Lift today or rest another year?

[Japonicus]

I wish I had done the recommended cut backs in stages now with this tree rather than all in one go of it.
It has survived, has not thrived.

Dec 2020 ^ This is the full extent of all the growth in 2020 after the 2019 lift from landscape.
1st pic this post, it still has not been cut, trimmed or anything. I feel like it has lost a minimum of 2 years
in doing such brutal insults in one go of it, maybe more.
The leaves are dwarfed and tightly stack like Mikawa Yatsabusa which reduces air flow and keeps moisture
and any bugs cramped between leaves stacked atop each other.

Ever experienced anything like this @MACH5 ? It should be 6' tall by now, and I
haven't touched it for 2 years.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

The short internode are awesome. Have you started fertilizing?

 

[Japonicus]

The short internode are awesome. Have you started fertilizing?

Limited yes . There's a kiss of frost damage, frosted just last night.
Our last day of possible frost runs up to Mothers Day or May 10th
so I will be feeding it a bit more now.

 

[BobbyLane]

You did the roots in march 2019, left it for a season, then you did the hard cutback in march 2020....a hard cut back after a season of growth isnt going to set a tree back, its not like its a beech where if you cut back to branches without twigs it weakens it. this is a mountain maple. it would seem you didnt get much root growth in the season you left it alone after the repot. i wouldnt over complicate the ferts either, you can feed them chicken shit alone and plants will thrive.

when you do a hard cut back on a healthy tree, it should respond like this. unless there is a root problem.
20190609_183844 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
20190609_183940 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[Japonicus]

...a hard cut back after a season of growth isnt going to set a tree back, its not like its a beech where if you cut back to branches without twigs it weakens it. this is a mountain maple. it would seem you didnt get much root growth in the season you left it alone after the repot.

Thanks for the reply Bobby. That's just it, I did not get a good season of growth.

Late last March I dug this maple and planted it back into the same spot.

Perhaps 2 years consecutive root work added to the issue.



Had I left the initial cut back here ^ I think it would have generated more root growth, having more foliage.

i wouldnt over complicate the ferts either,

not sure what over complications you're talking about, I just wait till we're rounding the corner
of hard freezes closer to last frosts before I feed well. The DE is working against me as that was the
2nd and final year of adding it into my mix. Never again in my yard. I gave the rest of it to a neighbor
that has a garage where he works on cars.
EDIT: + not having enough foliage the soil is not taking up water fast enough. Didn't need the DE anyway it turns out.

 

[BobbyLane]

you certainly dont need to keep pounding the roots if youre growing in those large grow boxes, there's absolutely no need. plus you already had a decent nebari when the tree was dug up the first time. re feed, folks just generally feed when the tree is actively growing.
it really wont need any root work now until it goes in a pot, even then you would just be trimming back feeders as the pad is pretty shallow as is. the nebari is there.

 

[BobbyLane]

this seems like overthinking to me, and it doesnt seem to be working, i prefer to keep it simple

"Awesome, glad you swung by, this is what I rotate on all my conifers...except I usually omit the 2 acidic ferts for shimpaku...
often supplementing in ProTekt 0-0-3 with silicone to aid with transpiration, and Superthrive,(and K-L-N for newly potted)...

Miracle Gro or (generic 24-8-16)

MirAcid 30-10-10

Alaska fish fertilizer 5-1-1
Fish and Seaweed 2-3-1

Dyna Gro 7-9-5

Espoma Holly-Tone acidic 4-3-4
Plant Tone 5-3-3

Not in that order as I switch between using lower N during the hottest months
and every other week I use the higher N weather permitting.
I guess I need to rethink offering trees at all stages the same food though I really have nothing near finished
so I hope I'm not working against myself here too bad. Thing here to consider as well, this rotation applies
to my conifers and this is my 1st year getting back into maples.

When you say 12-1-4 is balanced to the needs of the tree, is that maples in general in an acid rain environment?
It looks like of all the foods I listed, the generic Miracle Gro is the closest is analysis doubling the concentration that I use.
Since Mothers Day is deemed our last frost chance, and the latest pre-emergence should be applied to the lawn
I figure the tree will be in green leaf and growing by then, why I suggested I'd begin feeding after frosts. Is that a fair assumption?"

 

[Japonicus]

this seems like overthinking to me, and it doesnt seem to be working, i prefer to keep it simple

"Awesome, glad you swung by, this is what I rotate on all my conifers...except I usually omit the 2 acidic ferts for shimpaku...
often supplementing in ProTekt 0-0-3 with silicone to aid with transpiration, and Superthrive,(and K-L-N for newly potted)...

Miracle Gro or (generic 24-8-16)

MirAcid 30-10-10

Alaska fish fertilizer 5-1-1
Fish and Seaweed 2-3-1

Dyna Gro 7-9-5

Espoma Holly-Tone acidic 4-3-4
Plant Tone 5-3-3

Not in that order as I switch between using lower N during the hottest months
and every other week I use the higher N weather permitting.
I guess I need to rethink offering trees at all stages the same food though I really have nothing near finished
so I hope I'm not working against myself here too bad. Thing here to consider as well, this rotation applies
to my conifers and this is my 1st year getting back into maples.

When you say 12-1-4 is balanced to the needs of the tree, is that maples in general in an acid rain environment?
It looks like of all the foods I listed, the generic Miracle Gro is the closest is analysis doubling the concentration that I use.
Since Mothers Day is deemed our last frost chance, and the latest pre-emergence should be applied to the lawn
I figure the tree will be in green leaf and growing by then, why I suggested I'd begin feeding after frosts. Is that a fair assumption?"

LOL that was a post from March 2019, had forgotten all about that.
I thought you were replying to my most recent answer yesterday to Hack quoted below here...
I still rotate the feed I use weekly, to try to cover all the nutrient bases I can.
I do this for everything bonsai related, and to a lesser degree for landscape trees and plants.

The short internode are awesome. Have you started fertilizing?

 

[BobbyLane]

Thats some concoction you got there, please dont drink it

 

[Japonicus]

Thats some concoction you got there, please dont drink it

You know, of all the foods I use, the 5-1-1 Alaskan fish emulsion promotes the most lush growth on my junipers.

 

[MACH5]

View attachment 371879
I wish I had done the recommended cut backs in stages now with this tree rather than all in one go of it.
It has survived, has not thrived.
View attachment 371880

Ever experienced anything like this @MACH5 ? It should be 6' tall by now, and I
haven't touched it for 2 years.

The closest to this I have experienced was about ten years ago. I bought a rare red leaved A. palmatum in autumn. The following spring I gave it a very hard cut back thinking it would be just like cutting back any other regular palmatum. Not so! I killed the tree just from the hard cut back. And it wasn't even repotted. I realized how different the many cultivars can respond to similar treatments. So... I would have gone a lot easier with this tree and gradually reduce it. You really can't hulk out on some of these fancy varieties. You have very nice material here and I do believe it will bounce back. Just needs time.

 

[Japonicus]

You really can't hulk out on some of these fancy varieties. You have very nice material here and I do believe it will bounce back. Just needs time.

Hi Sergio and thanks for the reply! I sure hope it bounces back in time.
Is palmatum palmatum technically a variety?

The rotten areas, when would be best to get in there with a Dremel tool and carving knives?
I've never done that on a deciduous tree, and nothing more than a shari on a conifer.
I assume we use cut paste sparingly afterwards, or I have the putty type as well, err I did have.

 

[MACH5]

Hi Sergio and thanks for the reply! I sure hope it bounces back in time.
Is palmatum palmatum technically a variety?

The rotten areas, when would be best to get in there with a Dremel tool and carving knives?
I've never done that on a deciduous tree, and nothing more than a shari on a conifer.
I assume we use cut paste sparingly afterwards, or I have the putty type as well, err I did have.

Palmatum palmatum? Hmmm never heard of that

Yes you will need to get in the there with a Dremel or appropriate hand tool to clean out all the rotted wood. I posted a thread on this subject. Hope it's helpful.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/closing-wounds.47757/

 

[Japonicus]

Palmatum palmatum?

From: wiki below was a quick find, but the label on the original green var. read Palmatum palmatum...
otherwise known as Mountain Maple or so I've read. Thanks for the link. I agree with LazyLightningny that should
be included in the resources as always, great info and material. I appreciate your patience.

Three subspecies are recognised:[9][10]

• Acer palmatum subsp. palmatum. Leaves small, 4–7 cm (1 1⁄2–2 3⁄4 in) wide, with five or seven lobes and double-serrate margins; seed wings 10–15 mm (3⁄8–5⁄8 in). Lower altitudes throughout central and southern Japan (not Hokkaido).
• Acer palmatum subsp. amoenum (Carrière) H.Hara. Leaves larger, 6–12 cm (2 1⁄4–4 3⁄4 in) wide, with seven or nine lobes and single-serrate margins; seed wings 20–25 mm (3⁄4–1 in). Higher altitudes throughout Japan and South Korea.
• Acer palmatum subsp. matsumurae Koidz. Leaves larger, 6–12 cm (2 1⁄4–4 3⁄4 in) wide, with seven (rarely five or nine) lobes and double-serrate margins; seed wings 15–25 mm (5⁄8–1 in). Higher altitudes throughout Japan.

 

[hinmo24t]

looks smokable in the top pic

 

[Japonicus]

looks smokable in the top pic

I know right...like it's producing colas, and that worries me with moisture.
I'm afraid to remove any leaves yet what leaves are there scares me too.
Growing up I used to wear a real maple leaf on live edge olive wood medallion leather necklace.
Now I wont even wear a watch.

 

[Japonicus]

What should I do with cousin It here, (besides weeding)?

 

[HorseloverFat]

Dang! There’s like a job there, JUST seeing “what’s going on” before the ACTUAL job.

Shoot those nodes are tight!

 

[Shogun610]

What should I do with cousin It here, (besides weeding)?
View attachment 373775

Let it grow, let it grow, don’t hold it back any morrrrreeeee

 

[Japonicus]

Dang! There’s like a job there, JUST seeing “what’s going on” before the ACTUAL job.

Shoot those nodes are tight!

Do you mean I need to take better pics of the bones?
Hah, I can't see them either. You'll have to scroll up to post 41 second pic.

Let it grow, let it grow, don’t hold it back any morrrrreeeee

I am I am LOL I haven't touched it, but thanks for the reminder to feed it.
It's been so wet I can't use liquid feed yet though.