Fingers crossed, they are doing well. They all survived repots after they bloomed. I did lose one to what I suspect was overwatering while we were on vacation.
mail order azaleas Sept 2020
- Thread starter Leo in N E Illinois
- Start date
Hack Yeah!
Omono
Where did you order these from?
Glaucus
Chumono
Expecting an order of this to arrive near the end of winter:
Saishun
Aika
Kisshoten
Yumemirai
Beniko
Sumika
Yumehanabi
Senbazuru
Asazakura
Kurenai-no-Tenshi
Yumedono
Shikisai
Yumemonotagari
Chihiro
Satsukibare
Karenko
Kizuna
Yubi-no-Kagayaki
Okasui
Senhime
Kizashi
Hanatsuzuri
Shinsei-no-Kagayaki
Umihotaru
Hi-no-Hikari
Koto-no-Mai
Kaminoyamakirin
Saishun
Aika
Kisshoten
Yumemirai
Beniko
Sumika
Yumehanabi
Senbazuru
Asazakura
Kurenai-no-Tenshi
Yumedono
Shikisai
Yumemonotagari
Chihiro
Satsukibare
Karenko
Kizuna
Yubi-no-Kagayaki
Okasui
Senhime
Kizashi
Hanatsuzuri
Shinsei-no-Kagayaki
Umihotaru
Hi-no-Hikari
Koto-no-Mai
Kaminoyamakirin
Don't buy any purple ones!Oh Great! Now I have to beat you to it.
Sadrice
Seedling
@Deep Sea Diver
Thank you so much! I recently started working at the nursery where Polo was originally developed, and have been browsing the catalog and looking things up as I attempt to learn the inventory.
Polo particularly intrigued me, as it’s part of the Sonoma hybrid series, developed by Stewart Barber, the original owner. He sold the nursery in 1978 to a Rhododendron breeder by the name of Polo De Lorenzo, and I assume that Polo the azalea is one of Barber’s last cultivars, and named after the man.
It also has an intriguing description in our catalogue:
“(fall blooming) Mid-March. Unusual 2”, cup-shaped flowers with bright red edges fading to soft pink with white centers. Some flowers are solid red. Attractive dark green foliage. (SHN)”
Unfortunately there’s next to no information on the internet about it other than this thread.
I’m definitely putting that on the list to propagate.
Thank you so much! I recently started working at the nursery where Polo was originally developed, and have been browsing the catalog and looking things up as I attempt to learn the inventory.
Polo particularly intrigued me, as it’s part of the Sonoma hybrid series, developed by Stewart Barber, the original owner. He sold the nursery in 1978 to a Rhododendron breeder by the name of Polo De Lorenzo, and I assume that Polo the azalea is one of Barber’s last cultivars, and named after the man.
It also has an intriguing description in our catalogue:
“(fall blooming) Mid-March. Unusual 2”, cup-shaped flowers with bright red edges fading to soft pink with white centers. Some flowers are solid red. Attractive dark green foliage. (SHN)”
Unfortunately there’s next to no information on the internet about it other than this thread.
I’m definitely putting that on the list to propagate.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
There's a wholesale nursery dealer I buy my pots from outside of Baltimore. The biggest issue with buying from them is that they don't ship.....I have to drive up every time to pick up what I need.
Deep Sea Diver
Masterpiece
That’s a really nice list of newer cultivars. Particularly like Aika. I’ll have to try to get some cuttings of this cultivar soon!
Best
DSD sends
Deep Sea Diver
Masterpiece
So you are at SHN? It’s good to know that!
You are correct there is very little parental heritage left on the last bunch of cultivars produced out of Sonoma Horticultural nursery, Polo included. I heard the same backstory after spending hours over the past years looking for it. If the parents were known… good things might come of it…. Somewhere I believe I saw suspects listed…maybe the ASA?
Good luck propagating this cultivar. I think it would make a really nice medium sized bonsai.
cheers
DSD sends
Glaucus
Chumono
(a) 'Polo' cv. Evergreen azalea: parentage unknown R;
USA (pre 1989), N: USA Fis 50mm wide, brilliant red,
shading to white at centre; some solid red. Satsuki
(Listed by Nuccio's Nurseries and said to be from
Sonoma Horticultural Nursery)
I don' t think the parentage of ' Polo' was ever known. To me it also looks a lot like a Belgian indica, but not quite. I suspect a hybrid of satsuki and a Belgian/Southern indica.
Yeah, it is interesting that you can kind of define 3 groups of satsuki cultivars.
1) Those commonly produced by US nurseries, generally old varieties (
2) Those commonly used as bonsai (Kozan, Nikko, Osakazuki, Korin, Kinsai, Yata no Kagami)
3) The new varieties being produced by nurseries in Japan right now
It is a bit artificial and US-oriented. But it seems a bit like that. The varieties the US nurseries seem to favour are not the same as the varieties that Japanese bonsai growers favoured 50 years ago (and are now found as bonsai). And new varieties are new and by definition too young to appear as mature bonsai.
Often in terms of flowers, the 'best' varieties to obtain are the sports of very popular varieties. The more you grow a certain variaty, the more likely a sport with more attractive flowers will appear.
Aika and Beniko seem very nice. I am a bit sad I couldn't order a Sanshimai, the 2-colour sport of Moeka. It is said to have much better flower patterns.
Aika is a pink sport of Meguriai and Beniko is a red sport of Reiko. But there is also Senhime, which is a white background with red sport of Beniko. Asazakura is like the Aika of Asahi-no-Izumi. These pink sports of white-and-red always seem to look better than the original.
And Sumika is the red sport of Jukokan.
Then, Yumenomonotagari is maybe the best sport of Suisen, one of the best satsuki azaleas for flowers. It has a better mix of white, pink, and red patterns than Suisen itself, or the other sports (Koyo, ShinKoyo).
For Juko there are many sports. And the sport I got was Karenko. But if Suiren or Hoshi-no-Kirameki had been available, I would have picked those instead. I already have Byakuren, and this plant has appeared very hardy for me, even as a small plant not affected at all by the cold 2020-2021 European winter.
Okasui is very new and has flowers that are not white but pale yellowish-green. It won best new variety in 2019. Not completely my personal taste, though. I couldn't resist a very recent award winner. So I will be disappointed if my plant is a bad sport.
I have great hopes for Shikisai. Maybe one of the few large flowering satsuki with a very near elegant flower shape. I will have to observe it for myself.
Kizuna seems like a solid variety with some violet flowers. Might be a good balance between showy flowers and bonsai-optimized plant habit.
Hi-no-Hikari should be a good bonsai variety, but with a better flower colour than previous varieties.
Yumemirai for the small flowers. Also won best new variety in 2003.
Saishun just seems very impressive flower-wise.
Kurenai-no-Tenshi might be a bit of a cookie cutter white-and-red flowering variety, similar to Kisshoten. Kisshoten so far has had more impact, so I am interested in seeing the difference.
Kizashi, talking about another white-and-red mix variety, is won best new variety back in 2013.
I will have to wait and see if everything arrives safely. And then if the patterns are all correct.
USA (pre 1989), N: USA Fis 50mm wide, brilliant red,
shading to white at centre; some solid red. Satsuki
(Listed by Nuccio's Nurseries and said to be from
Sonoma Horticultural Nursery)
I don' t think the parentage of ' Polo' was ever known. To me it also looks a lot like a Belgian indica, but not quite. I suspect a hybrid of satsuki and a Belgian/Southern indica.
Yeah, it is interesting that you can kind of define 3 groups of satsuki cultivars.
1) Those commonly produced by US nurseries, generally old varieties (
2) Those commonly used as bonsai (Kozan, Nikko, Osakazuki, Korin, Kinsai, Yata no Kagami)
3) The new varieties being produced by nurseries in Japan right now
It is a bit artificial and US-oriented. But it seems a bit like that. The varieties the US nurseries seem to favour are not the same as the varieties that Japanese bonsai growers favoured 50 years ago (and are now found as bonsai). And new varieties are new and by definition too young to appear as mature bonsai.
Often in terms of flowers, the 'best' varieties to obtain are the sports of very popular varieties. The more you grow a certain variaty, the more likely a sport with more attractive flowers will appear.
Aika and Beniko seem very nice. I am a bit sad I couldn't order a Sanshimai, the 2-colour sport of Moeka. It is said to have much better flower patterns.
Aika is a pink sport of Meguriai and Beniko is a red sport of Reiko. But there is also Senhime, which is a white background with red sport of Beniko. Asazakura is like the Aika of Asahi-no-Izumi. These pink sports of white-and-red always seem to look better than the original.
And Sumika is the red sport of Jukokan.
Then, Yumenomonotagari is maybe the best sport of Suisen, one of the best satsuki azaleas for flowers. It has a better mix of white, pink, and red patterns than Suisen itself, or the other sports (Koyo, ShinKoyo).
For Juko there are many sports. And the sport I got was Karenko. But if Suiren or Hoshi-no-Kirameki had been available, I would have picked those instead. I already have Byakuren, and this plant has appeared very hardy for me, even as a small plant not affected at all by the cold 2020-2021 European winter.
Okasui is very new and has flowers that are not white but pale yellowish-green. It won best new variety in 2019. Not completely my personal taste, though. I couldn't resist a very recent award winner. So I will be disappointed if my plant is a bad sport.
I have great hopes for Shikisai. Maybe one of the few large flowering satsuki with a very near elegant flower shape. I will have to observe it for myself.
Kizuna seems like a solid variety with some violet flowers. Might be a good balance between showy flowers and bonsai-optimized plant habit.
Hi-no-Hikari should be a good bonsai variety, but with a better flower colour than previous varieties.
Yumemirai for the small flowers. Also won best new variety in 2003.
Saishun just seems very impressive flower-wise.
Kurenai-no-Tenshi might be a bit of a cookie cutter white-and-red flowering variety, similar to Kisshoten. Kisshoten so far has had more impact, so I am interested in seeing the difference.
Kizashi, talking about another white-and-red mix variety, is won best new variety back in 2013.
I will have to wait and see if everything arrives safely. And then if the patterns are all correct.
Sadrice
Seedling
@Deep Sea Diver
Indeed, it’s a fascinating place, with SO many cultivars. The other day a customer wanted a white azalea, and I was embarrassed I couldn’t give them much help other than take them through the azaleas and check the tags. I’ve been trying to figure out what the “best” of our offerings are, so I know what to recommend.
‘Polo’ is definitely going to the top of the list, both because of sentimental historical reasons as well as apparently it’s a damn fine Azalea.
Indeed, it’s a fascinating place, with SO many cultivars. The other day a customer wanted a white azalea, and I was embarrassed I couldn’t give them much help other than take them through the azaleas and check the tags. I’ve been trying to figure out what the “best” of our offerings are, so I know what to recommend.
‘Polo’ is definitely going to the top of the list, both because of sentimental historical reasons as well as apparently it’s a damn fine Azalea.
Glaucus
Chumono
I heard that Sonoma Horticulture went out of business? But they were bought by Hidden Forest Nursery?
So this might be the catalog that gets recovered?
From the Sonoma Hort catalog, 'Glacier' is a good white. Also, 'Gumpo (white)' of course. And Hakata Shiro/ Hakatajiro.
Then 'Hardy Gardinia' as a double flower. For kurume or small flowering white ones, I can't recommend one off my head.
Not sure if these are the best in your climate, though.
So this might be the catalog that gets recovered?
From the Sonoma Hort catalog, 'Glacier' is a good white. Also, 'Gumpo (white)' of course. And Hakata Shiro/ Hakatajiro.
Then 'Hardy Gardinia' as a double flower. For kurume or small flowering white ones, I can't recommend one off my head.
Not sure if these are the best in your climate, though.
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
I found a nursery near the house that has 'Gumpo white' and 'Gumpo pink'......going to snag a few to convert. The pinks have some really nice sized trunks.
Deep Sea Diver
Masterpiece
There are a group of pinks growing out here on the fence-line and a small number of cuttings.
I’ll be interested in seeing if the Gumpos can make worthwhile bonsai. Very healthy, strong, small leaves. Yet the wood is very hard, with bigger frilly flowers and have a tendency to grow in somewhat of a chaotic manner. It’s proneness shouts out hanging basket.
Perhaps these could be crafted into semi or full cascade?
cheers
DSD sends
Pitoon
Imperial Masterpiece
I thought the same thing. The flowers are rather large, but I don't have either of those two cultivars in my collection. I'll post some pics when I pick them up.
Glaucus
Chumono
Gumpo as a bonsai is very rare. No idea why.
Actually, not sure if everyone is aware. But you can see the winners of the three main satsuki bonsai competitions online.
The out of flower competition held by the professional nursery association: http://www.japan-satsuki.com/kojuten/result32.html (change 32 to 31 and lower to see previous years)
The in flower competition held by the hobbyist association: http://www.satsukikyokai.or.jp/satsuki_fes/2021_fes.html (use panel on the right to browse back in time up to 2007)
The in flower competition held in Kanuma: https://kaboku.or.jp/satsuki/#&gid=1&pid=14 (full result from 2021, plus an overview of grand prize winners and new variety winners of past years).
Pictures are not always the best and google translate doesn't always help.
I also found these tables in the 12th edition of 2019 of Satsuki Kenkyu (glossy magazine dedicated to satsuki).
Not fully sure what it says, except 'Satsuki association' and 'cultivar' and then lists each cultivar with a percentage. Probably a percentage of each variety exhibited at events in a certain category. This certainly doesn't involve meika/flower towers, as Osakazuki is no1. in most. I could translate the variety kanji for you guys.
Actually, not sure if everyone is aware. But you can see the winners of the three main satsuki bonsai competitions online.
The out of flower competition held by the professional nursery association: http://www.japan-satsuki.com/kojuten/result32.html (change 32 to 31 and lower to see previous years)
The in flower competition held by the hobbyist association: http://www.satsukikyokai.or.jp/satsuki_fes/2021_fes.html (use panel on the right to browse back in time up to 2007)
The in flower competition held in Kanuma: https://kaboku.or.jp/satsuki/#&gid=1&pid=14 (full result from 2021, plus an overview of grand prize winners and new variety winners of past years).
Pictures are not always the best and google translate doesn't always help.
I also found these tables in the 12th edition of 2019 of Satsuki Kenkyu (glossy magazine dedicated to satsuki).
Not fully sure what it says, except 'Satsuki association' and 'cultivar' and then lists each cultivar with a percentage. Probably a percentage of each variety exhibited at events in a certain category. This certainly doesn't involve meika/flower towers, as Osakazuki is no1. in most. I could translate the variety kanji for you guys.
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penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Great list, thank you.
That is my experience. I have planted hundreds of them in landscapes over the years.
Deep Sea Diver
Masterpiece
That would most interesting @Glaucus.
Here's an adjacent thought about bonsai and azaleas....
Over the years there are cultivars of satsuki azalea that have been recommended for bonsai by authors, Naka et al to Watanabe. Roberta Walters, a teaching student of Gondo's, mentions that of all the satsuki cultivars available, perhaps 50 or less are commonly used for bonsai. Perhaps this is because the horticultural aspects and bonsai aspects of these cultivars are well known/understood and these specific plants are actually available and desirable.
For example these cultivars are listed as being suitable and popular over a 25 year span:
Chiyo no Hikari, Goyten, Kaho, Kinsai, Kogetsu, Korin, Kozan, Nikko, Nyohozen, Ozakazuki, Yama no Hikari and Yama no Hikari
However, once one identifies these cultivars sports... in this example let's use Kozan..... there exists a larger subset of their flower sports (and perhaps leaf sports, but the actual data is sparse to support these.) that are extremely likely to share similar horticultural and bonsai aspects.
For example Kozan... and these may not be complete lists.
Kozan family (sports: Akakozan, Hikari no Hana, Kozan no Hikari, Kozan no Homare, Kozan no Hoshi, Kozan no Mai, Kozan no Tsuki, Nikko, Nyohozen, Shirokozan)
... and to extend this to one large family of one of Kozan's sports....
sub family Nikko family (sport of Kozan) (sports: Akane, Aoi, Goko, Hakko, Hikari no Tsukasa, Hosei, Kenko, Koippin, Nikko no Hana, Nikko no Hoshi, Nikko no Takara, Sachi no Hana, Tensho, Tensho no Hikari, Tosho no Hikari Subaru)
As one can see, the Kozan family has at least three cultivars frequently used for bonsai. Thus there are likely many other durable cultivars in this lineage that are suitable for bonsai.
There are many possible reasons these aren't used. For example. Desirablity of these cultivars is so high that other sports are overlooked, Sheer availability of the popular cultivars, Nonavailability of the other sports, Sports flowers don't look pleasing, Popularity of the flowers of these sports doesn't exist. Popularity of other non Kozan cultivars.... and a very probable one..... it takes a long time from identification of a sport to actual bonsai and investment in money and substantial risk to make a bonsai marketable in a traditional country.
Whew! ... and duh moment.... This means that there are hundreds of other satsuki and to take a leap other types of azaleas available that would make really good azalea bonsai... but may not have been explored.
Cheers
DSD sends
( So sorry! I must actually have too much time on my hands now that I'm grounded for a couple weeks!!!)
Sadrice
Seedling
@Glaucus
Sonoma Hort didn’t so much go out of business, as Polo De Lorenzo, the long time owner, got old and retired and moved back to the Canary Islands, selling it to my employer, Mike Boss, who later changed the name to Hidden Forest. The name change was partly for marketing (Sonoma Horticultural was a tad generic) and partly because the most common comment from visitors is something along the lines of “we’ve lived here for ages and never knew you were here”.
As for white Azalea, my current favorite that I recommend is Hino White, a small flowered sun tolerant fall bloomer, compact and dwarfed, a kaempferi hybrid, Shammerello’s work, might have bonsai potential. My coworker recommended Avalanche, but I can’t find any information other than our catalog entry, “Mid-March. Single, 1 1/2” white flowers. Heavy bloomer.* (Kurume)”. There seems to be a Rhododendron of the same name which i am quite certain is not the same.
Apparently we don’t actually have the white gumpo in stock, or any but the pink, and are also out of Hakata Shiro. I am definitely going to do something about that…
That catalogue is at least four years old, and contains a lot of things that I don’t believe we currently have in the nursery, but are probably present somewhere in the garden, and hopefully still has a tag on it.
Part of my work is figuring out what we still have in the ground but don’t have in stock and propagating the most worthy types, which is a fun combination of research and plant hunting and propagation, and certainly beats watering and weeding.
Sonoma Hort didn’t so much go out of business, as Polo De Lorenzo, the long time owner, got old and retired and moved back to the Canary Islands, selling it to my employer, Mike Boss, who later changed the name to Hidden Forest. The name change was partly for marketing (Sonoma Horticultural was a tad generic) and partly because the most common comment from visitors is something along the lines of “we’ve lived here for ages and never knew you were here”.
As for white Azalea, my current favorite that I recommend is Hino White, a small flowered sun tolerant fall bloomer, compact and dwarfed, a kaempferi hybrid, Shammerello’s work, might have bonsai potential. My coworker recommended Avalanche, but I can’t find any information other than our catalog entry, “Mid-March. Single, 1 1/2” white flowers. Heavy bloomer.* (Kurume)”. There seems to be a Rhododendron of the same name which i am quite certain is not the same.
Apparently we don’t actually have the white gumpo in stock, or any but the pink, and are also out of Hakata Shiro. I am definitely going to do something about that…
That catalogue is at least four years old, and contains a lot of things that I don’t believe we currently have in the nursery, but are probably present somewhere in the garden, and hopefully still has a tag on it.
Part of my work is figuring out what we still have in the ground but don’t have in stock and propagating the most worthy types, which is a fun combination of research and plant hunting and propagation, and certainly beats watering and weeding.
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Deep Sea Diver
Masterpiece
Sounds like fun!…. and you have your hands full.
I’m propagating Hino Crimson right now to check out its potential. Those small leaves and flowers make it good bet. It’s gonna take a couple years to figure this out though. First step is to see its whip potential. It’s an ubiquitous azaleas in the PacNW, so someone must of tried it already… likely white too.
Cheers
DSD sends
I’m propagating Hino Crimson right now to check out its potential. Those small leaves and flowers make it good bet. It’s gonna take a couple years to figure this out though. First step is to see its whip potential. It’s an ubiquitous azaleas in the PacNW, so someone must of tried it already… likely white too.
Cheers
DSD sends
