If you get some good budding on the apex area of your JBP, you might want to consider shortening the apex. Those two branches right at the top look like they could be eliminated entirely. It looks like they're budding at the tips. That would certainly make them too tall! Hopefully, there's something right at their base that could become the next apex.
Mail call! Yet another epic tree from Mr. Don Blackmond:)
- Thread starter abqjoe
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aml1014
Masterpiece
I know I sell both of them at my work. The regular cultivar gets about 25 to 35 feet tall and about 25 feet wide. They are pretty much flat on top when mature here and weeps.
Aaron
abqjoe
Chumono
I'll take a short video of this tree and post it up. I'll get some close ups of that area.
abqjoe
Chumono
thumblessprimate1
Masterpiece
Great old tree! The old bark is really nice.
But it has been neglected. And there are issues that need to be addressed.
It's important that you get in touch with Don and find out as much as you can about how it has been treated while in his care, and about how it was treated before Don. When was it repotted, and how. What fertilizers have been used, etc.
I think you can just cut those top two "antennae" off the top. The tree will never miss them!
It looks like Don decandled about 3 weeks ago. And new summer candles are sprouting. That's good. In about two weeks,begin giving it organic fertilizer cakes. Put on two or three the first week, add two or three more the next week, then add two or three more the week after. Leave on until frost, then remove them.
Hopefully, over the winter, you'll get some new buds on old wood to pop. However, on the main branches where there is heavy bark, you probably won't. The lower branches are bare. The interior sub-branches have died. Looks like some have been recently pruned off. That happened because the upper branches were not pruned or thinned, and the interior lower branches got shaded out and died.
You're going to want to fix this.
I'm going to tell you that it's not easy. At this point, the only way is to graft on new sub branches. Now, before you get upset, I'm also going to tell you that this "happens", and grafting to fix branches is a common practice in Japan. It does take some expertise, and practice. And good scions. You want to be able to take scions from the same tree, and graft them back on to the tree at different places. Right now, however, none of your existing branches look like good scions. You'll have to grow some.
So, I'm thinking you're going to have to wait at least a year before you can graft. I would get someone who is really good at grafting to do it. You'll probably need to have about a dozen set. Not all will take.
To repeat, it's a great old tree. It will be really nice in about 5 years when the grafts have taken, and you have interior branches again.
It would also benefit from being "wired out". Not now, after the new candles have grown out and the needles have hardened off. Maybe around Thanksgiving.
Wire out all the branches. This will help open it up. Don started this by decandling and pruning. When the summer candles mature, it will be thick again. So, opening it up will expose the old wood to the sun over the winter, and maybe pop some back buds next spring. I've had good luck getting them to back bud by using fertilizer in the fall, and wiring.
Wire out all the branches. This will help open it up. Don started this by decandling and pruning. When the summer candles mature, it will be thick again. So, opening it up will expose the old wood to the sun over the winter, and maybe pop some back buds next spring. I've had good luck getting them to back bud by using fertilizer in the fall, and wiring.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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@Adair M, understanding that this is a tree in need of a boost, can you explain why you would wait to apply ferts. If this tree were in my back yard, it would have at least a dozen tea bags with plantone on it right now. Don't forget that they have a shorter growing season then we do...I bet their first frost occurs some time in October, so the time to pump it up is limited.
Usually when I decandle, I wait a month to 6 weeks before I fertilize. If the new summer candles get a lot of fertilizer early, the candles themselves get long and leggy. With long spaces of stem between needles.
The goal is to have shorter stems with tightly bunched clusters of needles. Once the stem has expanded and starts to produce needles, the stem stops elongating. Then that's the time to fertilize. We want healthy, strong needles, but short stems.
It appears this tree is just beginning to send out summer candles. Building the stem.
Of course, it also depends on how well the tree was fertilized prior to decandling. If the tree was not fertilized before decandling, it will have less stored energy. If that were the case, a light application of fertilizer might be ok.
This information is important, which is why I said he should get in touch with Don and find out its prior care.
The goal is to have shorter stems with tightly bunched clusters of needles. Once the stem has expanded and starts to produce needles, the stem stops elongating. Then that's the time to fertilize. We want healthy, strong needles, but short stems.
It appears this tree is just beginning to send out summer candles. Building the stem.
Of course, it also depends on how well the tree was fertilized prior to decandling. If the tree was not fertilized before decandling, it will have less stored energy. If that were the case, a light application of fertilizer might be ok.
This information is important, which is why I said he should get in touch with Don and find out its prior care.
And, I think it was decandled rather late in the summer for this tree. It's big, so the needles can, and should be, longer than the needles you'd want for a shorter tree. So, decandling earlier in the summer gives the summer candles and needles a longer growing season.
abqjoe
Chumono
I put some Happy Frog on it a couple of days ago.
Dav4
Drop Branch Murphy
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I agree with everything you say, but my gut says strength is everything for this tree to get it back into shape, and I'd be ok with a few "too long" candles on some of those branches this fall since they're likely to get removed in a year or two, or even be scions for grafting. Honestly, I think you could hit this one with miracle gro weekly along with the organics and it's unlikely to push excessively right now, but set it up for a good push next spring.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Ditto. This tree needs to be pumped up. I realize they look plucked when in this phase, but the remaining needles look limp, pale, and sparse. It's good to know the "rules", but it's more important to know why, when, and how to deviate.
Nice base on this one @abqjoe look forward to seeing updates.
abqjoe
Chumono
Thanks! I'll post up some updated pics in this thread in September. Our first frosts don't usually come until November so this tree still has a few minutes to push
Dav4 and BVF have valid points. I was speaking from my experience, and I fertilize heavily in the spring. If it was not, then light fertilizing now, and increasing during the fall is probably a good idea.
I'm not concerned with the needle length, it's the length of the stems. They will be there for a long time.
Rather than Miracle Grow, I'd use fish emulsion weekly.
We don't know what the soil is. That makes a huge difference. I wish Don would pipe in and tell us what he knows about the soil and recent potting.
With no other information than what we have now, I would recommend a half bare root repot early next spring. Into Boon Mix or similiar. When the branch structure appears to have been neglected, it's a good bet that the roots were, too, and probably more so!
Honestly, fixing the roots is THE most important thing to do when rejuvenating neglected trees.
I'm not concerned with the needle length, it's the length of the stems. They will be there for a long time.
Rather than Miracle Grow, I'd use fish emulsion weekly.
We don't know what the soil is. That makes a huge difference. I wish Don would pipe in and tell us what he knows about the soil and recent potting.
With no other information than what we have now, I would recommend a half bare root repot early next spring. Into Boon Mix or similiar. When the branch structure appears to have been neglected, it's a good bet that the roots were, too, and probably more so!
Honestly, fixing the roots is THE most important thing to do when rejuvenating neglected trees.
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LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
Repot will be challenging....You can get it back to good health with a bit of time...
Nov. '13...
and the latest photo...
I'd be dumping everything I had into it....that rootball must be as hard as stone!!
Gnarly looking tree.....you have your work cut out for you!
I'm still using some dated techniques, but it's got this far and next year I can use more appropriate methods.
I think it's right at the limit of it's hardiness up here, but it's doing ok.
All these folks know more than I, surely. I'm still learning these boys likes and whatnot....
Enjoy growing, JBP should grow well there
Nov. '13...
and the latest photo...I'd be dumping everything I had into it....that rootball must be as hard as stone!!
Gnarly looking tree.....you have your work cut out for you!
I'm still using some dated techniques, but it's got this far and next year I can use more appropriate methods.
I think it's right at the limit of it's hardiness up here, but it's doing ok.
All these folks know more than I, surely. I'm still learning these boys likes and whatnot....
Enjoy growing, JBP should grow well there
Don Blackmond
Omono
deleted.
After seeing that Don wrote a post, and then deleted it, I realized that that my prior posts could be interpreted as if I was accusing Don of neglecting this tree.
That was not my intent at all! Don takes excellent care of his trees. He is a reseller of trees, so I know he has not owned this tree for its whole life. The neglect this tree has suffered I'm sure predates Don's association with it.
If anyone thinks I was criticizing Don's care, I am sorry that I gave anyone that impression. Don is an excellent vendor, and I have purchased several trees from him. They have always exceeded my expectations, and I highly recommend Don as a vendor of quality bonsai trees.
It is not at all unusual in the bonsai business to aquire a collection of trees and then resell them. There are often "gems in the rough" in those collections, and I believe this tree is one. Trees like this are the ones I tend to buy and rejuvenate.
My comments on the condition of this tree are based upon my experience of working with similar trees. This tree absolutely can be brought back to great health, and should become a spectacular specimen once again.
That was not my intent at all! Don takes excellent care of his trees. He is a reseller of trees, so I know he has not owned this tree for its whole life. The neglect this tree has suffered I'm sure predates Don's association with it.
If anyone thinks I was criticizing Don's care, I am sorry that I gave anyone that impression. Don is an excellent vendor, and I have purchased several trees from him. They have always exceeded my expectations, and I highly recommend Don as a vendor of quality bonsai trees.
It is not at all unusual in the bonsai business to aquire a collection of trees and then resell them. There are often "gems in the rough" in those collections, and I believe this tree is one. Trees like this are the ones I tend to buy and rejuvenate.
My comments on the condition of this tree are based upon my experience of working with similar trees. This tree absolutely can be brought back to great health, and should become a spectacular specimen once again.
Don Blackmond
Omono
Thank you, I appreciate your comments.
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