MABS 2016 - April 15-17

[Adair M]

I was indeed surprised to hear that the ficus won.

My critiques (for what it's worth.....)

The ficus was on a stand that was too small and it had several wounds that needed to be healed over. It's a nice tree, don't get me wrong, but it didn't feel like a show winner to me.

My top 3 trees (in no particular order) were John's Shimpaku, Brian's Larch, and Doug's Crabapple. I would have had to really think about what order to place each tree, but these were easily the show standouts to me. In addition to these 3, I also liked John Romano's shohin and Sergio's maple.

I felt many trees in the show were not show ready, and many of the displays didn't make sense. Several people had framed pictures placed behind their trees that was totally confusing to my eye. I'm all for innovative display, but for innovative display to be effective it has to be logical and have a good artistic aesthetic. Also the presentation of many trees was very poorly done. In most cases, pots and stands were not properly oiled and cleaned and moss was poorly applied. Most accents plants were not prepared well either, either being too dense or too sparse, and often the wrong size.

To me, display is the ultimate goal of bonsai. I personally would love to see people put as much thought into their displays as they do their bonsai. Because this wasn't the case, I thought the show was pretty bland and unexciting. I'm saying all these things because I feel like the show, and bonsai in the northeast, has a lot of potential to be much, much better.

Cheers!

Yes... Display is a whole aspect of bonsai all on its own!

Andrew, was this the first show you've attended since BIB?

I'll share this bit of conversation I had with Owen Reich when he first returned from Japan:

Me: "Owen, what struck you first as the difference between the way they do bonsai in Japan, and the way we do bonsai here in the States?"

Owen, paused a second then: "Attention to detail."

Profound words, indeed.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Lots of attention to detail with everything.

 

[johng]

Would you care to share his broccoli comments here?

Those comments should be familiar to you Adair Or, maybe you weren't there on Sat. night in Asheville???

 

[whfarro]

Would you care to share his broccoli comments here?

I was in the critique WP did of the exhibited trees. He likened the traditionally styled Shimpaku and junipers (with well groomed, full & dense pads and canopies) to broccoli. His suggestion to improve most was to remove 50-70% of the foliage.

 

[Andrew Robson]

Yes... Display is a whole aspect of bonsai all on its own!

Andrew, was this the first show you've attended since BIB?

Yes, although when I was in Portland last month we set up a few displays for fun.

 

[Andrew Robson]

I was in the critique WP did of the exhibited trees. He likened the traditionally styled Shimpaku and junipers (with well groomed, full & dense pads and canopies) to broccoli. His suggestion to improve most was to remove 50-70% of the foliage.

I couldn't (respectfully) disagree more. Removing 50-70% of this tree would utterly destroy it. I'm curious to know how many people at the show actually looked underneath to see all the detailed and refined branching of this juniper.

 

[Paradox]

I couldn't (respectfully) disagree more. Removing 50-70% of this tree would utterly destroy it. I'm curious to know how many people at the show actually looked underneath to see all the detailed and refined branching of this juniper.

We were asked to not touch the trees. Out of respect I did not.

I think that was one point of WP's criticism. You can't see the tree through all that foliage! While I would agree 70% would probably be too much, the green helmet a.k.a. broccoli head is also too much.

I also found it quite ironic that he was once told his trees can't be bonsai, because they didn't look like bonsai. His response was "what is a bonsai supposed to look like?"

If a bonsai is supposed to look like a tree then why were his not "bonsai"?

 

[Adair M]

Those comments should be familiar to you Adair Or, maybe you weren't there on Sat. night in Asheville???

Actually, I was not. So, I didn't get to hear the full broccoli lecture.

I did ask him privately for a critique of my tree, and he mentioned keeping it thinned out so that it would not get as thick as broccoli.

I do keep my tree thinned, so that I can "see down" through it from above. From the side, it looks full. This allows sunlight to penetrate into the interior, keeping interior branches alive.



This is how it looked at the show:



It looks full, but it is not so tightly bunched that the foliage is solid.

Right now, it is growing well, and it is bunching up. I will let it do so for another month or so. It needs to grow! Then, I'll come in and thin. No pinching, of course!

 

[Andrew Robson]

We were asked to not touch the trees. Out of respect I did not.

Not pick it up, bend down to look at it from a different angle.

I think comparing this tree to broccoli is a total insult to the years of refinement put into this tree. If this tree is broccoli-like, than there is an awful lot of broccoli in my kokufu-ten and Gafu-ten show books....

Those are just my thoughts, however, for what it's worth...

 

[coh]

Gotta remember to put broccoli on the grocery list.

I think I've seen the kinds of trees Walter refers to as "broccoli". Not at all like Adair's tree, instead they tend to have a solid canopy (green helmet?) with no spaces at all, just mounds of green on top of mounds of green. Adair's tree has distinct pads that may look relatively dense from the side, but not the same thing at all.

Sounds like Walter was advising to "stay the course" and keep the tree from turning into broccoli, not saying it looked like broccoli right now.

 

[Adair M]

Gotta remember to put broccoli on the grocery list.

I think I've seen the kinds of trees Walter refers to as "broccoli". Not at all like Adair's tree, instead they tend to have a solid canopy (green helmet?) with no spaces at all, just mounds of green on top of mounds of green. Adair's tree has distinct pads that may look relatively dense from the side, but not the same thing at all.

Sounds like Walter was advising to "stay the course" and keep the tree from turning into broccoli, not saying it looked like broccoli right now.

That's what I thought he said, too.

But, I didn't get to hear the full broccoli discourse, so I was hoping for more enlightenment.

For that show, I went up Friday to set up, and returned home. There was some family event on Saturday, then I returned on Sunday. Right after the auction ended, at 4 pm, that's when they announced it won People's Choice. Right at breakdown!

 

[Adair M]

Those comments should be familiar to you Adair Or, maybe you weren't there on Sat. night in Asheville???

JohnG,

Since I wasn't there on Saturday night, did Walter say my tree looked like broccoli? I'm just curious.

 

[whfarro]

I couldn't (respectfully) disagree more. Removing 50-70% of this tree would utterly destroy it. I'm curious to know how many people at the show actually looked underneath to see all the detailed and refined branching of this juniper.

John's tree & display was stunning. Yes many stooped down to view the tree at eye level while I was there. Some discussed how it might look on a taller stand. Again, I thought it was very nice indeed.

 

[Adair M]

John's tree & display was stunning. Yes many stooped down to view the tree at eye level while I was there. Some discussed how it might look on a taller stand. Again, I thought it was very nice indeed.

It's a "three point" display. It's what you do with trees that are too big to be considered shohin, but not big enough to stand on their own.

Any taller of a stand, and the tree would look like its on a cascade stand. Which would be wrong.

I wasn't there... The picture in this thread makes it look like it was crowded in between two other displays.

Even beyond "Display" is "Show Display". The art of setting up the entire show so that each individual display (tree or composition) is shown to its best advantage.

Warning! Going off topic here:

I once was able to go the Masters golf tournament, on Sunday. Got there early. Real early. Got to watch the guys set the pin placements for the back nine.

For each green, they had a detailed map. That shows EXACTLY where they have placed the pin for each day of the tournament for the past 20 or so years!

Each year, they want to place it in a slightly different place. Oh, they have general placements, on Thursday it goes in one quadrant, Friday's another, and so on, but even then, for Sunday for example, they make sure it wasn't in exactly the same spot as any previous tournament! Then, when they pick a spot, they stick a spike in the proposed spot, step back, and putt a few balls at it to see if it provides the right amount of challenge. Pretty cool to watch them work it out.

Back on topic;

So, the experienced judge or show coordinator should arrange the trees so that small trees aren't dwarfed by large neighbor's.

I wasn't there, I assume someone was in charge of set up.

 

[A Random User]

Always glad to see my work at shows I have never been too...

 

[MACH5]

There were 3 separate critiques that involved 4 judges: Kobayashi, Bjorn and Walter Pall who co-judged with Jim Doyle. I attended the Kobayashi critique and this is what I remember him saying about each of the winning trees:

Ficus:
Much wider pot needed leaving the larger space towards the left. The tree looked like it was in a box with the current pot. The lower center branch removed to open up the design. Overall he liked the movement and general impression of this massive tree. Stand way too small.






Crabapple:
Kobayashi really liked this tree and pot combination. He felt the lower right branch could be somewhat longer. He said that the tree appeared a bit off balance but he said this fact made it special.






Larch:
This tree was also well liked. A couple of branches he felt needed to be removed in order to better appreciate the trunk line. He also felt that the tree should be rotated clockwise to better show off the shari.






Juniper:
Another tree that was well liked. He admired it for the trunk line and overall appearance. He also liked the chojubai companion. He felt that foliage was too dense particularly at the ends. With some of it cut back it would allow for both jins at each end to be better seen. He also commented about changing the planting angle for both trees. He liked the pot choice very much!






I will also share what Mr. Kobayashi said about my maple. I will post this on the tree's thread over in the maple forum. Will (whfarro) attended the WP/Jim Doyle critique so he covered for me there. And I had another friend that went to the Bjorn one and so I have that as well.

 

[MACH5]

I wasn't there, I assume someone was in charge of set up.

Unfortunately not at least that I am aware off. You got there and you picked your spot. There was no one person overseeing the entire display as a whole. It ended up with at least one display looking out instead of in. In another spot there were two maples next to each other and I suggested that it be changed. FWIW I will propose to the MABS committee that this changes for future years and have someone aesthetically overseeing the entire exhibit and how it all hangs together.

 

[Adair M]

Unfortunately not at least that I am aware off. You got there and you picked your spot. There was no one person overseeing the entire display as a whole. It ended up with at least one display looking out instead of in. In another spot there were two maples next to each other and I suggested that it be changed. FWIW I will propose to the MABS committee that this changes for future years and have someone aesthetically overseeing the entire exhibit and how it all hangs together.

Oh, my!

Jim Doyle was the "Critique Master". That should have been a part of his job.

 

[Paradox]

I think comparing this tree to broccoli is a total insult to the years of refinement put into this tree. If this tree is broccoli-like, than there is an awful lot of broccoli in my kokufu-ten and Gafu-ten show books....

Those are just my thoughts, however, for what it's worth...

@Adair M. IMO, I dont think your tree quite fits what Walter is talking about.

Regarding Kokufu-ten trees and the like. Yes those are beautiful trees, and they have had a lot of work done to them, no denying that.
They follow very strict rules for bonsai created by humans and are very rigid in their form. They have been a model for bonsai across the world and everyone tries to copy that.
They have become the paradigm of bonsai so to speak.

However, you are completely missing the point of Walter's argument. Walter is challenging the paradigm of bonsai as we have been taught by and copied from the Japanese.

I think Walter's description of Plato's Cave Analogy fits really well with what he is talking about. We have been so brainwashed by those Japanese trees, many of us refuse to see anything else.

Yes, those Kokufu-ten trees are beautiful, but are they realistic? Can you show me any wild tree in nature that even comes close to how those look?
No you can't. Wild trees aren't manicured, they don't conform to rules or style.

They don't look like real trees. That is what Walter is saying. Isn't bonsai about trees? Isn't that the point? Are bonsai supposed to look like trees or some manufactured, manicured copy of a tree?

He isnt the only one that is challenging this paradigm. Other very experienced bonsai professionals are also looking toward a more naturalistic style for bonsai.

 

[Adair M]

There were 3 separate critiques that involved 4 judges: Kobayashi, Bjorn and Walter Pall who co-judged with Jim Doyle. I attended the Kobayashi critique and this is what I remember him saying about each of the winning trees:

Ficus:
Much wider pot needed leaving the larger space towards the left. The tree looked like it was in a box with the current pot. The lower center branch removed to open up the design. Overall he liked the movement and general impression of this massive tree. Stand way too small.






Crabapple:
Kobayashi really liked this tree and pot combination. He felt the lower right branch could be somewhat longer. He said that the tree appeared a bit off balance but he said this fact made it special.






Larch:
This tree was also well liked. A couple of branches he felt needed to be removed in order to better appreciate the trunk line. He also felt that the tree should be rotated clockwise to better show off the shari.






Juniper:
Another tree that was well liked. He admired it for the trunk line and overall appearance. He also liked the chojubai companion. He felt that foliage was too dense particularly at the ends. With some of it cut back it would allow for both jins at each end to be better seen. He also commented about changing the planting angle for both trees. He liked the pot choice very much!






I will also share what Mr. Kobayashi said about my maple. I will post this on the tree's thread over in the maple forum. Will (whfarro) attended the WP/Jim Doyle critique so he covered for me there. And I had another friend that went to the Bjorn one and so I have that as well.

With comments like that, how did the ficus tree get BIS?