looking for tokonoma display fanatics

[dick benbow]

As I get deeper and deeper in my interest of toko display, I'm realizing there are not that many around who share the same passion.
A bonsai display is not the same as a toko display, so either I have to find birds of a feather
or find other avenues for advancement.
If your interested in this type of display, I'd like to hear from you so that we could continue to share a common interest.

 

[chansen]

As I get deeper and deeper in my interest of toko display, I'm realizing there are not that many around who share the same passion.
A bonsai display is not the same as a toko display, so either I have to find birds of a feather
or find other avenues for advancement.
If your interested in this type of display, I'd like to hear from you so that we could continue to share a common interest.

Dick -

While not an active poster on the forum, I have great interest in tokonoma display and appreciate the things you share. I have plans for an outside tokonoma this summer, so I am following your project with interest.

 

[Brian Underwood]

I thoroughly enjoy display, and will always compete in the Toko Kazari as long as it's around. The idea that you can create a feeling of time and place through display is extremely enticing to me.

 

[kakejiku]

I thoroughly enjoy display, and will always compete in the Toko Kazari as long as it's around. The idea that you can create a feeling of time and place through display is extremely enticing to me.

It is my understanding that the Clark Center for Japanese Art and Culture is closing their doors after this last exhibition in 2015. I do not think that bodes well for the Toko Kazari competition, but I may be wrong...

 

[kakejiku]

As I get deeper and deeper in my interest of toko display, I'm realizing there are not that many around who share the same passion.
A bonsai display is not the same as a toko display, so either I have to find birds of a feather
or find other avenues for advancement.
If your interested in this type of display, I'd like to hear from you so that we could continue to share a common interest.

Benbow様へ

Keep the faith and work towards what you love in your own niche. Not all bonsai enthusiasts are into the art/display side of the hobby. Some may just love the fact that they watch their trees grow and develop and can relax nurturing their collections.

I do not do bonsai at all... But I love the display aspect, particularly as it relates to symbolism. In Japanese there is a word called 季語 (kigo) which is the first character Ki season and go words. It is seasonal poetry that goes back hundreds if not thousands of years. That is what many Japanese base their displays in the Tokonoma off of...but if you have not studied the poetry or know the flower/plants/animal symbols that clue you in to these seasonal indicators it can be very frustrating for someone unacquainted with that cultural background.

I mean, look at one of my posts to Victrinia Ridgeway on this site many months back. I asked her and other posters on this site what season (and even month) the Hawk would symbolize in a Japanese display...no one answered. Display is cultural storytelling intertwined with literature.

That is where American bonsaiists do themselves an injustice. They need to create displays relative to their own cultural backgrounds, but still follow some basic aesthetic rules. And BTW if someone says there are no rules in Japanese display there are definitely guidelines that are pretty standardized so I would consider them rules.

 

[dick benbow]

Definetely helps to know who is also interested. I was beginning to think we were few and far between.

I'd like to see some more sharing on the topic (thanks Jonathan) especially if we're loosing
bout the only kazari I know of in competition this year

 

[Kodama16]

I also love tokonowa displays. There my favorite way to view bonsai. I plan to build a japanese tea house with a tokonome in it. Currently I a have a mini tokonowa in my living room. I'm still setting up scrolls and stands for it. But I plan to keep it there for along time.

 

[Eric Schrader]

...American bonsaiists do themselves an injustice. They need to create displays relative to their own cultural backgrounds, but still follow some basic aesthetic rules.

I have an interest in display. But, I'm primarily interested in it because it is a way to make my trees look as good as possible.

Dick - I'd be interested to know about your new project.

The thing about traditional display that has always frustrated me is exactly what Jonathan is talking about. I'm not Japanese, I'm not really a Japan-o-phile. My interest in bonsai comes to me from an interest in nature, an interest in gardening, an interest in tinkering and an interest in art. The interest in Japan has only developed since I have become more and more into bonsai.

I'd like to create original displays, with original elements that are meaningful to Americans and American culture. But American's are largely uninterested in nature. The hurdles to creating a truly American display are many, starting just with the trees, but then the pots, stands, accent pieces and something to substitute for a scroll. I've accomplished an all-american display only once I believe. Some single element usually foils my efforts.

 

[kakejiku]

But American's are largely uninterested in nature.

something to substitute for a scroll.

I would disagree with that especially people interested in bonsai.

Benbow San is talking about doing Toko no Ma displays. If you substitute a scroll, it is like having a car with no engine and no steering wheel...

I saw someone post here from San Francisco. If you wanted to do a display, native to America you could do the following (be aware that I am not sure if this particular tree would work as a bonsai.)
Tree Salix Lucida (shining willow)
Scroll Scene very far off distant Golden Gate Bridge
Accent Bronze Pelican

In Japan the willow is a Summer season display item. You might feel different, but I recall seeing the pelicans flying under and around the GG bridge in Summer...

 

[dick benbow]

Learning the japanese way has helped me to create a thought process towards developing n american way. I have done this with all my japanese interest hobbies.
It's always fascinated me that americans love to have a display on their front porch. In fall they have pumpkins, jack o lanterns and maybe a scarecrow. Winter around christmas a wreath, lights etc.
So I think we have it in us to want to relate to a season. No doubt tho that Japanese culture
is deeply involved.
I appreciated Jonathan's suggestion for an american display. I'm keeping my eyes open for a mask or totem from one of the Northwest Indian tribes whih could be used in the fall with the return of the salmon. many of their lodges were made of cedar, so plan to have a nice tree to be able to use at that time. Scroll would be of a circling bald eagle, over a river scene. Perfect for fall.
I appreciate both cultures and will try my best to do them both, well.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Benbow San is talking about doing Toko no Ma displays. If you substitute a scroll, it is like having a car with no engine and no steering wheel...

A scroll has no counterpart in America. I'm not trying to offend; in fact, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for what you do. It's just I don't see that there is any way to take the Asian feel out of a scroll hanging.

You'd have to move to a painting or photograph that is framed in some other way. But perhaps, since you are knowledgeable about scrolls you can think of scroll use in modern western culture? The only thing I can think of is the Torah.

Dick - I appreciate what you're saying about learning Japanese ways to inform your attempts at westernization of the same ideas. I think I'd benefit from some education in this matter if you have any suggestions for reference material?

Kind regards,

Eric

 

[Smoke]

You might feel different, but I recall seeing the pelicans flying under and around the GG bridge in Summer...

Mostly I see the pelicans around the garbage cans.

 

[kakejiku]

A scroll has no counterpart in America. I'm not trying to offend; in fact, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for what you do. It's just I don't see that there is any way to take the Asian feel out of a scroll hanging.

Eric

It is quite obvious that many on this site are confusing bonsai display with a toko no ma display and do not understand the history and true use behind the Toko no Ma. Quite disappointing really...so here is a translation from some segments of the wikipedia site in Japanese.

Toko no Ma 床の間 becomes formalized by the predecessor Oshiita押板 which are both spaces used to display the Kakejiku.

Toko no Ma becomes an important room to entertain for visitors and guests during the Edo/Tokugawa Period. (1600-1853)

 

[kakejiku]

Mostly I see the pelicans around the garbage cans.

Al, do not know if this is written as a light hearted jest, sarcastic, or disrespectful.

However, I will let the fact that I consulted on two first place finishes in two different display competitions speak for itself that I do know how to set up either a toko no ma or seki kazari appropriately.

Usually Japanese bonsaiists use personal experiences to establish their displays. When I lived in Daly City and my son was about 2 years old we walked across the GG bridge, and I remember the pelicans gliding across the water...that was the reason for that post.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

Tell us more about tokonma please. What you offer is interesting to me for my background.

Bill

 

[dick benbow]

Eric, I think one of my biggest frustrations has been the difficulty in getting good information on the topic. Most books I have found are in japanese script with maybe a sentence in english.
Peter warren made some interpretations from japanese into english on a popular school
manual that was helpful.
I think honestly what has helped me was to have lived in japan and have a basic sense of things to build from. I studied Koi and Japanese Gardens under Japanese teachers and have an expectation of what it takes to learn other subjects as long and deliberate.
I have to admire Jonathan's continual presence trying to help, when it would be just as easy to get frustrated and take his energies elsewhere. thank-you....
No doubt scrolls are based in the east but i do think and hope eventually I'll be able to use some of my brother's wildlife photograpy. As I focus on that opportunity, I struggle with the subtlety of sumi-e grey tones as against color photography which tends to supersede attention away from the bonsai with it's size and strong color. I don't think my wildlife photography brother would be willing to go back to black and white.
But for now I revel in the opportunity to continually learn this subject, as slow as it may be
because I love the journey and expect to work my way into the destination. Like most things it's the accomplishment of making progress each day, then having something given to you that you didn't have to work for, that keeps me involved.
Once i get my Toko built and get moved into our new place, I hope to start posting pics
that can draw comments pro and con that can help us all continue to learn.

 

[chansen]

No doubt scrolls are based in the east but i do think and hope eventually I'll be able to use some of my brother's wildlife photograpy. As I focus on that opportunity, I struggle with the subtlety of sumi-e grey tones as against color photography which tends to supersede attention away from the bonsai with it's size and strong color. I don't think my wildlife photography brother would be willing to go back to black and white.

I have had the same thoughts. I think color photographs would be fine so long as the photos are not too busy. From my uneducated perspective, scrolls are not just subtle in their color but the subject matter is simple as well. Capturing the same simplicity in a photograph is possible, but not always the desired outcome.

 

[kakejiku]

Tell us more about tokonma please. What you offer is interesting to me for my background.

Bill

Which one in your picture is the 本勝手?

 

[William N. Valavanis]

Sorry, I'm not Japanese and don't understand or read kanji.

 

[Smoke]

Here is something interesting...

http://bonsaibark.com/2015/01/22/a-...ery-notion-you-ever-had-about-bonsai-display/