Late night yamadori ninja mission.

sorce said:
It's not about the law it's about the way the injured person was raised.

An honorable robber won't get hurt, or want to go to court.

It could be family who thieves you.

It's a fucking snake that sues to get rich.

Sorce
Click to expand...

Honorable robber?

The world is full of snakes.
 
michaelj said:
How about this: probably 99 times out of a 100 times, if a trespasser you weren't expecting to trespass on your land injures himself on your property and sues you, if you have the guts to take it to trial, you will win. The laws vary from state to state - in some places, the trespasser is always just SOL, in some places, not many, the trespasser has almost the same rights as an invited guest, but for the most part, and in most places, unless you did something deliberate to harm trespassers (like a spring gun or a concealed excavation), or unless the trespassers were kids and you put an "attractive nuisance" on your property (i.e., something other than an interesting piece of yamadori), you'll have very very limited duties to protect from, or even warn the trespasser about, dangerous conditions on your property, much less make sure that they don't do something stupid and harm themselves. Absent such a duty, you have no liability if someone trespasses on your land and breaks their neck or gets eaten by your dog, or whatever.

The link you cited talks about premises liability to invitees. These are the majority of premises liability cases, and they involve people who have the right to come onto the property in places like stores, churches, restaurants, government land and the myriad of other places that you can walk onto without being a trespasser. But there are totally different circumstances when you are talking about people who aren't allowed to be there.

Here's a somewhat better link, which addresses liability to trespassers.

https://premisesliability.uslegal.com/duty-owed-trespassers/

Frankly, not as good as some of the material I used to hand out at MCLE courses, when I was lecturing other lawyers about defending premises liability tort claims, but it gives a decent summary of what the deal is.

So what kind of claims could be brought? Here are some example: You plant land mines around your marijuana farm, or load a spring gun to shoot and kill anyone who enters your cabin in the woods, you leave open mine shaft tunnels adjacent to a popular hiking trail, you keep a wild chimp on your property and sometimes forget to lock his cage, even though you know the high school kids often use your back yard as a shortcut to the practice field. There are all sorts of odd situations in which a court might find liability, but those odd cases are rare, and easily 99% of the time, if a trespasser gets hurt, even because you left your property in a dangerous condition, you, the landowner, will win.

tl;dr: The idea that trespassers who get hurt while trespassing can usually get loads of money by suing the landowner is a myth. It rarely happens, and only under very limited circumstances.
Click to expand...
OK, so it's rare. Point made, however, why not explain the larger point here?-- why it's ok to go on someone's and take something? How the legality of THAT for crying out loud? got any tort or trespassing statutes you can cite? What kinds of charges can a landowner bring against someone taking stuff from their property? It's a lot more germane to the topic and a bit more helpful.
 
sorce said:
It's not about the law it's about the way the injured person was raised.

An honorable robber won't get hurt, or want to go to court.

It could be family who thieves you.

It's a fucking snake that sues to get rich.

Sorce
Click to expand...
I have yet to see an "honorable robber." There is no such thing. Someone who thinks stealing is an OK way to get something they really don't need has no honor.
 
Giga said:
Robin hood
Click to expand...
If we're doing fictional carriers, why not Batman too? He regularly murders and assaults people because, well, he just doesn't agree with them. No due process, just vigilante justice but I guess it's not bad if you agree with him...

The myth of "Robin Hood" as a noble thief has been used to justify all manner of murder and mayhem. The NYC cosa nostra goombahs in the 1970's used to use that lie because "hey, we're helping our people and our neighborhoods wit da cash..." Never mind the body count...
 
rockm said:
I have yet to see an "honorable robber." There is no such thing. Someone who thinks stealing is an OK way to get something they really don't need has no honor.
Click to expand...

Point is a Robber Robs...

Usually that dirt is enough for them to not want police involved.

It's a different person who sues you, it's more of a fraud then a strong arm.

Of course some folks are raised with no values.

Also...

I could be Rich as Hell if I was a snake!

But I was raised different!

Sorce
 
rockm said:
If we're doing fictional carriers, why not Batman too? He regularly murders and assaults people because, well, he just doesn't agree with them. No due process, just vigilante justice but I guess it's not bad if you agree with him...

The myth of "Robin Hood" as a noble thief has been used to justify all manner of murder and mayhem. The NYC cosa nostra goombahs in the 1970's used to use that lie because "hey, we're helping our people and our neighborhoods wit da cash..." Never mind the body count...
Click to expand...

I was recently engaged in a conversation with an ex Cicero cop about how everything went to shit here since they busted the mob.

We are going on 2 years with no Illinois budget?

The fucking greed has run rampant without those checks and balances!

Shit...

There is a new sign on our baseball field which is ten years old...
"This beautiful park was made possible by OSLAD FUNDS."

Now, I don't know if OSLAD was around ten years ago, or if they just decided 10 years later to give us a sign and get recognition.


But it sounds a lot like OSLAD BOUGHT a couple tap cons to mount a five dollar banner for our park...

And Probly a new car for some fuckstack politician.

Sorce
 
sorce said:
e fuckstack politician.
Click to expand...

Who....

BTW

Is the same fuckstack politician or his people that we are expected to better know about wether it is right or wrong to dig a tree than us.

They'll say no if there's a 1% chance they were gonna make paper money out of that tree....which they then could not pocket....because the tree wasn't ruined to make bills.

Greedy ignorant fucks!

Sorce
 
My rules for collecting boil down to one rule: Have no significant impact.

Legal:
I collect bald cypress from the wild. The land is private and the owner just doesn't want me to sue if I hurt myself out there. I HAVE hurt myself. I have not sued.
Another location, much further north than NOLA, is managed by the Army Corps of Engineers. The water elms (Planera aquatica) we pull grow like weeds. No one seems to care if we pull these trees. When we're asked about what we're doing, it is out of curiosity. Then the conversation turns to bonsai.

Location:
Coastal erosion is a very real threat to Southeastern Louisiana. I will not collect on undeveloped land without large cities between me and the Gulf of Mexico. If the land where I collect is ever part of coastal Louisiana, it means that New Orleans is gone, the Mississippi River delta has moved 90 miles north, and the oceans have risen 5 feet.
I've been asked to teach someone how to collect trees on their private lake in Northern Louisiana. Now THAT will be a treat.

Reforestation:
I have participated in projects which resulted in hundreds of bald cypress and tupelo trees being planted in Army Corps water management areas.
 
My slightly questionable dig story:

There was a boxwood on my route to work. I drove past it nearly every day for nearly 20 years. The land is used by the city for an underground drainage pipe. The tree was about 5 feet onto the city-owned property. The land is city owned, but maintained and landscaped by the neighboring home owners. So long as you don't affect the drainage, the city is hands off.

I knocked on the door of the house closest to the boxwood. An elderly woman answered the door. I introduced myself and my purpose and asked for permission to pull the tree. The woman said "Well, it is on city property and my husband might mind, but he's asleep. So I say go ahead." In less than 10 minutes (I timed it), I had the tree in my trailer and the hole filled with the soil I brought with me. As for the witness, within a year, the house was vacant and resold.

Here's the tree, the day I dug it. This is a 4'x8' trailer:
NnQFAYg.jpg
 
rockm said:
OK, so it's rare. Point made, however, why not explain the larger point here?-- why it's ok to go on someone's and take something? How the legality of THAT for crying out loud? got any tort or trespassing statutes you can cite? What kinds of charges can a landowner bring against someone taking stuff from their property? It's a lot more germane to the topic and a bit more helpful.
Click to expand...

I would think that this is something that people would understand without a lot of explanation. Yes, of course you can get into trouble for sneaking onto someone's land and digging up their plants without permission. You can be charged (almost always as a misdemeanor, but theoretically, if the damage exceeds a certain amount, it could be a felony) and you could be sued for trespass and conversion (the civil court equivalent of larceny). In my state, you'd be running afoul of Penal Code § 602 (trespass) and §§ 484(a) & 488 (theft by larceny).
 
michaelj said:
I would think that this is something that people would understand without a lot of explanation. Yes, of course you can get into trouble for sneaking onto someone's land and digging up their plants without permission. You can be charged (almost always as a misdemeanor, but theoretically, if the damage exceeds a certain amount, it could be a felony) and you could be sued for trespass and conversion (the civil court equivalent of larceny). In my state, you'd be running afoul of Penal Code § 602 (trespass) and §§ 484(a) & 488 (theft by larceny).
Click to expand...
Sadly, it is not something that is understood, apparently by more than a few people. It is worth spelling out. Thanks.

The penalties from taking something from federal land is another issue that isn't well understood too.
 
Giga said:
Robin hood
Click to expand...
Robin Hood stole from the "rich and gave to the poor".
In that time, the rich were the kings and their ruling class types, who gain their riches through over taxation....of the "poor" who were the working peasant types, who were being taxed into poverty by big govt...
(Contrary to what they said about the previous administration, I recall people wearing shirts with a picture of Obama wearing an Robin Hood hat, saying Obama Hood, as if he were "taxing the rich and giving to the poor".
He was an embodiment of the rulers being robbed by Robin Hood.)

Sorry. I just despise the recent distortion of Robin Hood as a big government type.

But my mind went straight to Robin Hood too when I read that, lol!
 
Giga said:
Robin hood
Click to expand...
Sometime, somewhere there was a bow shooting championship. The target was an apple put on someone's head.

First shooter shot the bow and the apple went to two halves...Bravo! What's your name man? ...William Tell

Second shooter shot and the stem of an apple went to two halves. He said:"I'm Robin Hood".

Third competitor shot and hit the head of the man with an apple so it went to two...
He said:"I'm sorry".
 
Just so I can get my head around this thread....

In the 15th century, Robin Hood stole shrubbery from the rich and gave bonsai to the poor?

"It's not that I'm not grateful, you see, Sir Robin. This boxwood makes for a very nice informal upright. But could you perhaps get us a broom style persimmon? It's just that the wife and kids are a bit hungry and I've been spending an awful amount of time sifting haydite."
 
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