JWP from seed

[Vance Wood]

Back in the day I tried growing Japanese White Pine from seed and now I have four or five of them left. This is one of them of course growing on its own root system. A lot of work before it's show quality. A lot of work befoer it's bench quality, but there you go for you adventurers that want to grow from seed. This one is from the 80's

 

[RKatzin]

Has this been in a container the whole time? Nurtured or neglected? Just curious.

 

[Vance Wood]

Yes always in some sort of container. At one time I had nearly two-hundred of them. Sold quite a few of them I now only have five of them left. Very difficult to deal with and not have them die. Nurtured and neglected. Till I started treating them like understory trees I would lose one or two a year.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I have a very soft spot in my heart for JWP... it is probably my favorite pine.

 

[Vance Wood]

I have a very soft spot in my heart for JWP... it is probably my favorite pine.

It's a beautiful tree but it is fussy to work with. I believe one could make a career of them.

 

[Quince]

Yes always in some sort of container. At one time I had nearly two-hundred of them. Sold quite a few of them I now only have five of them left. Very difficult to deal with and not have them die. Nurtured and neglected. Till I started treating them like understory trees I would lose one or two a year.

Could you please expound on what you mean by "treating them like understory trees". Is this less direct sun or protection from wind? Which factors do you believe separate those that died early on from those that are still with you today? I have a couple flats worth of seed planted out, and I would like to avoid a long slow process of attrition.

 

[Giga]

Hey the tree is like me - from the 80's - way to go growing from seed.

 

[Vance Wood]

I had heard that they needed full sun and very little water. Lost most treated that way. Eventually I found that they did better if given dappled shade and misted daily. A propolaptic administration of a fungicide seems to help. I have used Captan but orchard spray works as well. I believe that the fungicide is critical in the beginnings. As they germinate protect from snails and grubs which love the seed as they germinate. They will eat the cotyledons if you don't control them.

 

[GGB]

I had a few of these from seed as well, and I moved them out of a crowded vegetable garden into full sun. All but one died, and that one survivor looks awful. I'm glad I read this, unfortunatley it's a little late

 

[barrosinc]

I had heard that they needed full sun and very little water. Lost most treated that way. Eventually I found that they did better if given dappled shade and misted daily. A propolaptic administration of a fungicide seems to help. I have used Captan but orchard spray works as well. I believe that the fungicide is critical in the beginnings. As they germinate protect from snails and grubs which love the seed as they germinate. They will eat the cotyledons if you don't control them.

Nice info! Thanks, Vance.
I am going to give these a go... might work. If not I just recycle the Scoria and forget about it. If it works, cool.

Do the seeds stratify like jbp?

 

[Vance Wood]

Nice info! Thanks, Vance.
I am going to give these a go... might work. If not I just recycle the Scoria and forget about it. If it works, cool.

Do the seeds stratify like jbp?

Yes they need stratification. Get your seed, soak in water, plant all those that sink during the first 12 to 24 hours, the others are marginal and probably will not germinate. I kept mind in the vegitable crisper just above freezing for several weeks.

 

[Adair M]

Most of the JWP we see as bonsai are not from seed. They’re grafted. Of course, in Japan there are yamadori which are from seed, but by far the majority are grafted. A few are from cuttings or layers.

And, there is a reason for this. Most of the JWP from seed do not produce the tight, short bundle of needles that we (bonsaists) expect from JWP. You see, a few cultivars of dwarf mutations of JWP do produce those beautiful tufts of foliage, and the Japanese propagated them via grafts to make thousands of them. Older JWP with inferior foliage got grafted with the better foliage. So, JWP with the tight foliage are rare on their own roots.

They sew thousands of seed, grow them for a few years then cull out the ones with average to poor foliage. Keeping only a small percentage of the number sewn.

Any named cultivar is either a graft, or grown from a cutting or layer. A cultivar is a particular set of genetics. Anything from seed will have different genetics. Which is why growing JWP from seed, even from a cone from one of the desirable foliage types, will not give you seedlings with the same characteristics as the parent plant.

 

[barrosinc]

Thanks Adair. I completely understand that.
In Chile there is no way a plant will cross the border... so it's either this way or no way. I might as well give it a go.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Love the bark on that one. How long ago was the branch removed?

 

[Adair M]

Love the bark on that one. How long ago was the branch removed?

JWP bark takes about 20 to 30 years to begin to get flaky.

There is something you can do to accelerate the process. That smooth juvenile bark will start to crack open at around 20 years. It’s kinda like an eggshell. Once it cracks, and begins to “open up” a bit, you can peel it off. Or rather, pop off little bits of it at a time. Underneath, you will see brown mature bark. So, you can peel off the old grey bark once, don’t peel the brown bark.

It starts happening on the oldest part first. The lower trunk. And works it’s way up. It’s very much affected by which side is facing the sun, exposure to rain, etc. it’s best not to force it. If it pops off easily, go for it. If not, let it stay and check back a few months later.

Once the juvenile layer is off, the mature bark seems to become flaky pretty easily. It goes thru a flaky stage for about 20 years before it starts making bark plates like JBP.