JBP advice needed

[Deep Sea Diver]

Gosh, Peter Chan knows what he is talking about.

If Peter says the tree needs a slip pot, then slip pot. If he says use this particular mix until the full repot, do so. Also I’m pretty sure the sand Peter is talking about is what the Japanese term as river sand, which has been used in bonsai horticulture for centuries. It's porous, volcanic origin particles similar to our pumice.

As far as timing goes, I just finished slip potted over a dozen trees and have a few more still to go. The keys to slip potting are to match the media used previously and to be able to properly care for the trees afterwards.

Please put aside all concerns about branching until the tree gets to a pro, develop a plan of action and focus on carrying it out. That’s how one learns about designing a tree.

Signing out now…
DSD sends

 

[JeffS73]

I'm not sure where you are in the UK, possibly the South if you got it from Herons. I would be tempted to overwinter it in a greenhouse or similar until we'll established. Just from my experience of some pines finding our wet freezing winters a bit much. Especially if in sand, and especially if Cork bark.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

I like this comment but don't want to change your reaction score @JeffS73

I'm up norf mate, it was mail order from heron's

I use an unheated conservatory for my winter protection, it still gets a bit below freezing but is frost free

As mentioned above I have no local guide so I really appreciate your input!

What sort of temps would you move it in? I had a real battle trying to balance letting trees build up for winter and protecting from the cold last year.

 

[JeffS73]

I had to look to see what you were on about with the reaction score! Just freeze it there please Bonsainut.

I normally move mine into the greenhouse around the first harder frosts, usually late October / early November. Earlier if its cold and really wet. I usually open door and windows every day to keep it cold & air flowing.

 

[Srt8madness]

Chan knows his shit and its cool he made a video about it. I didn't see any advice from this thread that contradicted what he said. Certainly a great lesson in why details are important when discussing technique on a global website.

 

[Srt8madness]

Also, in that video Chan was working a 5 needle pine which he said was from Takamatsu. Which is Zone 9b!! Basically similarly weather to where I live.

I've always been under the impression 5 needle pines wouldn't grow well in Zone 9. Something like Larches? Too hot/they need freezing temps? But Takamatsu doesn't dip below freezing often and their highs are low 90s....

 

[Paradox]

Also, in that video Chan was working a 5 needle pine which he said was from Takamatsu. Which is Zone 9b!! Basically similarly weather to where I live.

I've always been under the impression 5 needle pines wouldn't grow well in Zone 9. Something like Larches? Too hot/they need freezing temps? But Takamatsu doesn't dip below freezing often and their highs are low 90s....

A white pine (5 needle) might not do well if it's on its own roots. They like cold winters.
If grafted onto JBP or another warmer climate pine it should fare better.

*edit* just looked at the video and yea that tree is grafted onto JBP.

 

[Shibui]

I've always been under the impression 5 needle pines wouldn't grow well in Zone 9. Something like Larches? Too hot/they need freezing temps? But Takamatsu doesn't dip below freezing often and their highs are low 90s..

My first tries with white pine were not successful so for many years I also believed the white pines do not like heat or need cold winters but a few years ago I came on some seed. A couple germinated and survived. Maybe they have not read the theory. From those 3 seedlings I have struck cuttings and grafted more and they all seem to grow quite well despite winter nights only just getting below freezing and summer day temps well over 100F with low humidity.

 

[namnhi]

My first tries with white pine were not successful so for many years I also believed the white pines do not like heat or need cold winters but a few years ago I came on some seed. A couple germinated and survived. Maybe they have not read the theory. From those 3 seedlings I have struck cuttings and grafted more and they all seem to grow quite well despite winter nights only just getting below freezing and summer day temps well over 100F with low humidity.

Pics or this didn't happen.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Chan knows his shit and its cool he made a video about it. I didn't see any advice from this thread that contradicted what he said. Certainly a great lesson in why details are important when discussing technique on a global website.

Not in this thread, but most of my research into pines. That said I have been experimenting with different soil mixes with my seedlings and despite expecting them to be dead by now those in pure organics are doing well here.

I always liked Peter Chan, I was just trying to avoid this thread turning into another discussion about him haha! But yes very cool he did a video, he says its the 4th of July in the vid, so he must made it the same day I asked for advice and uploaded it the next day. What a guy!

Thank you for letting me know takamatsu climate zone, I'm not so far from 9 myself though it seems are winters are getting colder and our summers hotter here.

 

[Shibui]

Pics or this didn't happen

just for you oh doubting Thomas.

One of the original seedlings - not grafted but used as stock plant for grafts and cuttings.


Another original


The 3rd seedling has been planted in the paddock with views of harvesting seed when it matures. Now getting close to 2 m tall.

Close up of needles


One of the grafted progeny on black pine stock.


All the others I have propagated have been sold, white pines being somewhat scarce down here.

 

[SgtPilko]

I think go ahead and do what Peter says (hey if it goes wrong its on him and he'll probably sort you out!) but yeah at the risk of starting a Chan chat he does quite a few things that would contradict the advice of other top pros in the UK. Not necessarily in this case, but he often seems more keen on saving time and money than the highest levels of care and design.

Baby it and once you get to next spring maybe seek other opinions... traditional wisdom is that pines in our climate need a free draining inorganic mix and ideally you'll have multi-year gaps between repotting - that Chan compost mix is going to be more rententive and break down too fast long term IMO.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Baby it and once you get to next spring maybe seek other opinions... traditional wisdom is that pines in our climate need a free draining inorganic mix and ideally you'll have multi-year gaps between repotting - that Chan compost mix is going to be more rententive and break down too fast long term IMO.

He does say this is only a first winter thing and next year repot properly without the organic.

Even then his usual mix still has some organic and is more water retentive than my go to pine mix, that said it still dries out every day in the summer.

My next problem is I have either an air pruning plastic pot which I am concerned will leave roots exposed to elements though it will probably help let more water out

Or a ceramic that is likely a bit too big (wide ways not so much deep ways)

 

[Paradox]

I would go with a pot of similar shape to what it is in now, just bigger. Same depth just bigger width and length

Too shallow will be bad.
I'm not a fan of air pots myself

 

[namnhi]

just for you oh doubting Thomas.

One of the original seedlings - not grafted but used as stock plant for grafts and cuttings.
View attachment 497487

Another original
View attachment 497489

The 3rd seedling has been planted in the paddock with views of harvesting seed when it matures. Now getting close to 2 m tall.
View attachment 497490
Close up of needles
View attachment 497491

One of the grafted progeny on black pine stock.
View attachment 497488

All the others I have propagated have been sold, white pines being somewhat scarce down here.

That's no white pine. That's green 5 needle pine. Just playing with you.

 

[JeffS73]

My JBP, JRP, JWP and a particularly fussy green Knight cedar are so much happier in an open bark/pumice mix. Finer pumice at the top. They do need watering more often.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

So I slip potted this into the mix prescribed by Peter,

We have had at least 2 weeks of constant rain during which time the soil on top has only dried out 1 time

I am concerned that I am getting a few orange needles popping up around the tree

Is it getting too wet?

Any advice much appreciated

Also is waterlogging a risk for the corky bark?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

So the chan method worked and the tree survived the winter so I repotted today to remove the compost and a lot of the river sand,

I took the opportunity to remove a couple crossing and high roots

Check out the mycorhizae!