Japanese white pine growing cones

[bonsaiDerek]

my Japanese white pine which i have grown from a seedling about 6 years ago... is growing 3 small pine cones... should i leave them or remove them?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Doesn’t matter much. I remove most of them, but like to see one or two occasionally.

 

[Shibui]

my Japanese white pine which i have grown from a seedling about 6 years ago... is growing 3 small pine cones... should i leave them or remove them?

Are these actually cones? Many are confused between male pollen cones and female seed cones.

Cones will take some energy to develop but healthy trees can manage it. Most cones on my potted pines end up empty or with hollow seed - probably lack of fertilization with few pollen donors close by - so you may not even get seed from the cones.
Leave or remove is probably a toss of the coin - so it is up to you to decide

 

[Forsoothe!]

Only leave them if you want the seeds. Motherhood is taxing at the expense of all else.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Flowering trees also "taxed" by flowers; sometimes many, many flowers but flowers not removed. Keep them and consider it a gift. Personally have 7-8 year old oaks growing acorns and keep these.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Only leave them if you want the seeds. Motherhood is taxing at the expense of all else.

I sometimes wonder how expensive seed production would be. So I figured to do some dirty math with very little scientific basis..
The average weight of a stone pine pine cone according to google is roughly 300 grams, 80% of which is water. Let's go with 50% water instead, that makes 150 grams of dry material. Please note that stone pines make some of the largest cones out there.
The least dense pine wood I can find in a quick google search is roughly 0.35 grams/cm3. So to produce 150 grams of wood it should produce 438cm3 of wood. Since 438cm3 is exactly 438cc or 438mL that's a little less than one and a half can of coca cola worth of wood. That's a fat shohin worth of investment for a tree.

That's pretty insane! Given that you have two-fists-sized cones on a bonsai tree.

Now if I go with the cones my mugo produces, which are about 3cm max, they'd weigh around 5 grams each, 2,5 grams dry weight. Relate that to the density of wood and it's about 7cm3 of wood; roughly four pine candles after elongation. About the amount I lose when cutting candles, or when I repot the wrong way. Relatively speaking, I think that's a pretty small expense.
If we'd use the average density of wood instead, which is around 0.5g/cm3 then we'd be talking even smaller expenses. 2,5 grams of dry weight divided by 0.5 gives us 5cm3. 5cm3.. That's what? 3.5 candles after elongation? A single branch?

I did this math quick and dirty, real dirty. But when put into perspective, I think cones really don't take that much energy. Everyone is free to correct me on this of course!

 

[Colorado]

I leave the cones on my pines. I have a hard time believing it has a huge impact on the tree and if anything the energy diversion to the cones will lead to shorter needles.

That is what I tell myself anyway, not “proven”

 

[Kanorin]

I leave the cones on my pines. I have a hard time believing it has a huge impact on the tree and if anything the energy diversion to the cones will lead to shorter needles.

That is what I tell myself anyway, not “proven”

Good point. If the tree is in refinement stage, the cones might even help out!
But on a tree that I’m still thickening the trunk on, I think I’d remove 80%-90% of the cones.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I sometimes wonder how expensive seed production would be. So I figured to do some dirty math with very little scientific basis..
The average weight of a stone pine pine cone according to google is roughly 300 grams, 80% of which is water. Let's go with 50% water instead, that makes 150 grams of dry material. Please note that stone pines make some of the largest cones out there.
The least dense pine wood I can find in a quick google search is roughly 0.35 grams/cm3. So to produce 150 grams of wood it should produce 438cm3 of wood. Since 438cm3 is exactly 438cc or 438mL that's a little less than one and a half can of coca cola worth of wood. That's a fat shohin worth of investment for a tree.

That's pretty insane! Given that you have two-fists-sized cones on a bonsai tree.

Now if I go with the cones my mugo produces, which are about 3cm max, they'd weigh around 5 grams each, 2,5 grams dry weight. Relate that to the density of wood and it's about 7cm3 of wood; roughly four pine candles after elongation. About the amount I lose when cutting candles, or when I repot the wrong way. Relatively speaking, I think that's a pretty small expense.
If we'd use the average density of wood instead, which is around 0.5g/cm3 then we'd be talking even smaller expenses. 2,5 grams of dry weight divided by 0.5 gives us 5cm3. 5cm3.. That's what? 3.5 candles after elongation? A single branch?

I did this math quick and dirty, real dirty. But when put into perspective, I think cones really don't take that much energy. Everyone is free to correct me on this of course!

Consider also cones on Bonsai normally reduced in size from wild tree by 50-75% unless very small to begin with.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Consider also cones on Bonsai normally reduced in size from wild tree by 50-75% unless very small to begin with.

Is that really so? Fruit & flowers are not normally reduced on bonsai, except that they are not maximized. It is not uncommon for substantial (in bonsai terms) branches to be shed in the seed ripening process in addition to setting fewer new buds for next year's growth. This is very common in Azalea and Silver Buttonwood, and unfortunate for the continuing design of bonsai plants. The sooner that the plant can skip to building buds for the next year, the better next year's growth will be, generally speaking.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Is that really so?

Yes is so! Have seen much reduced Ponderosa cones on Ryan Neils trees. Have also had JBP cones on personal trees reduced at least 50% maybe 66%. Suspicion is that 12-15" cone of Sugar Pine to still be huge on Bonsai while reduced but they are exceptions. Perhaps because cones woody require more food to produce than ephemeral watery flowers and fruit they grow smaller? Why do full size pines like Scotts grow tiny cones and others like Sugar and Coulter Pine grow gigantic cones? Who besides God knows reason? Only that this happens.