Japanese Maple Grow Boxes

[The Warm Canuck]

I just received my copy of Anrea Meriggioli's opus "Bonsai Maples". I highly recommend this to anybody interested in the subject, it's a truly a comprehensive guide on everything Japanese Maple. I also received Peter Adams's "Bonsai with Japanese Maples" which is good but nothing in compared to Meriggioli's book.

Now on to the subject at hand.

Both the authors appear to use boxes that are significantly bigger than the trees root balls. Adam's isn't that much bigger, but my eyes almost popped out of my head when I saw Meriggioli's.

I'm in the habit of putting my trees into a box a few inches larger than the grow box or bag, and let the tree consume it, then "up pot" and continue the process. I'm wondering if this is actually necessary, or just one of those practices we adhere to because we've been told that this is the way to do it. Obviously, these authors are producing Maples that exquisite.

What's your experiences with oversized shallow grow boxes for maples?

 

[River's Edge]

The oversize boxes are typically shallower. ( compensating for volume ) The advantage is primarily a more rapidly developed flatter style root ball. The radial roots can extend further and thicken faster. Easier to cut back in the desired form. The disadvantage is watering requirements. They can dry out quicker if one does not change watering habits or make use of sphagnum moss to limit the drying effect.
From my experience, in my situation I tend to compromise between the two. I choose the deep propagation flat, still considerable width and length for development but a bit deeper! I then plant the tree lower in the flat and keep a bit more soil than usual over top of the surface roots with sphagnum moss. This suits my situation.
One other adaptation I have tried with success is the wooden boxes because the hold moisture better than the plastic flats. This allows one to be wider and shallower without the same extent of drying.
Hope the rambling makes sense.
Soil beneath the board will assist in moisture retention theoretically but I question its efficacy for the root ball above the board. Seems the top surface can still dry out very fast. In short the best method may boil down to how often you can water.

For real eye popping results plant in the grow bed on a board, or the ground. If your location allows this option.

 

[NateDyk47]

I just received my copy of Anrea Meriggioli's opus "Bonsai Maples". I highly recommend this to anybody interested in the subject, it's a truly a comprehensive guide on everything Japanese Maple. I also received Peter Adams's "Bonsai with Japanese Maples" which is good but nothing in compared to Meriggioli's book.

Now on to the subject at hand.

Both the authors appear to use boxes that are significantly bigger than the trees root balls. Adam's isn't that much bigger, but my eyes almost popped out of my head when I saw Meriggioli's.

I'm in the habit of putting my trees into a box a few inches larger than the grow box or bag, and let the tree consume it, then "up pot" and continue the process. I'm wondering if this is actually necessary, or just one of those practices we adhere to because we've been told that this is the way to do it. Obviously, these authors are producing Maples that exquisite.

What's your experiences with oversized shallow grow boxes for maples?


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Thanks for sharing! I actually have both of these books in the mail and am really looking forward to reading them.

I am planning to build wooden grow boxes for my JMs that will be repotted in spring. The proportions in those pictures are definitely larger than I was planning on building... Not sure if it makes a difference, but I'm planning to screw my trees directly to the grow boxes.

 

[River's Edge]

but I'm planning to screw my trees directly to the grow boxes

Not the best plan, pretty much guarantees the roots sit in the wettest area constantly, or if a screen bottom dry out too fast. best to plan for a buffer layer in my view!

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Thanks for sharing! I actually have both of these books in the mail and am really looking forward to reading them.

I am planning to build wooden grow boxes for my JMs that will be repotted in spring. The proportions in those pictures are definitely larger than I was planning on building... Not sure if it makes a difference, but I'm planning to screw my trees directly to the grow boxes.

I like using something like a vinyl tile that I can screw the underside of the tree to.

 

[River's Edge]

I like using something like a vinyl tile that I can screw the underside of the tree to.

My favourite are the old fashioned melmac plates that you can find in the thrift store. You know the kind we used to use for camping trips and at home before we could afford real fancy plates. Easy to drill, clean and disinfect. Slight crown when applied upside down so excellent drainage and no risk of rot. Re-usable as well.
Can be drilled to tie down roots in spread pattern for development. Jute works well, decomposes and does not harm the growing roots.

 

[NateDyk47]

Not the best plan, pretty much guarantees the roots sit in the wettest area constantly, or if a screen bottom dry out too fast. best to plan for a buffer layer in my view!

Interesting. Screwing directly to the box is what Bjorn suggests for maples in development.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

My favourite are the old fashioned melmac plates that you can find in the thrift store. You know the kind we used to use for camping trips and at home before we could afford real fancy plates. Easy to drill, clean and disinfect. Slight crown when applied upside down so excellent drainage and no risk of rot. Re-usable as well.
Can be drilled to tie down roots in spread pattern for development. Jute works well, decomposes and does not harm the growing roots.

I'll have to keep my eye out for some old melmac plates.

I've also made tiles out of cedar, which seem to be holding up well, but not sure how long they will last though.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Interesting. Screwing directly to the box is what Bjorn suggests for maples in development.

Do you have a link? Just for some context.

It would be nice not having to wire the tree to the box but like Frank says, it doesn't seem to be the best idea.

 

[NateDyk47]

Are you a Bonsai U member? I can find the video if you are but it's not one of the public ones. It's one of the ones where he goes over the ebihara root method.

 

[River's Edge]

Are you a Bonsai U member? I can find the video if you are but it's not one of the public ones. It's one of the ones where he goes over the ebihara root method.

As I understand it the key to the Ebihara method is the fastening ( stapling ) of the roots to the wooden board, creating a choke point and division of the roots in a homogeneous fashion prior to the choke point. This allows the developer to determine the site of root division. However, the developer must always be cognizant of the decomposing board and be prepared to change it out during the development. Excellent method. Easier to do if a board is involved, rather than the bottom of the box. This is thoroughly discussed and documented in merrigioli's book. Having soil below the board provides a much better form of drainage for those who cannot tend their bonsai 24/7, or in climates where considerable rain is prevalent. For reference of this discussion check the section 14.4 pages 365-374. An excellent reference or the Ebihara technique, including aspects to pay careful attention to such as the condition of the board and the preparation prior to fastening. In particular how to select the point of fastening and the effect of doing so.
Mr. Ebihara is recognized as the expert in this method, very innovative and dedicated to improvement. I have no doubt that he attempted many variations in developing his techniques.

 

[NateDyk47]

As I understand it the key to the Ebihara method is the fastening ( stapling ) of the roots to the wooden board, creating a choke point and division of the roots in a homogeneous fashion prior to the choke point. This allows the developer to determine the site of root division. However, the developer must always be cognizant of the decomposing board and be prepared to change it out during the development. Excellent method. Easier to do if a board is involved, rather than the bottom of the box. This is thoroughly discussed and documented in merrigioli's book. Having soil below the board provides a much better form of drainage for those who cannot tend their bonsai 24/7, or in climates where considerable rain is prevalent. For reference of this discussion check the section 14.4 pages 365-374. An excellent reference or the Ebihara technique, including aspects to pay careful attention to such as the condition of the board and the preparation prior to fastening. In particular how to select the point of fastening and the effect of doing so.
Mr. Ebihara is recognized as the expert in this method, very innovative and dedicated to improvement. I have no doubt that he attempted many variations in developing his techniques.

That's my understanding as well, along with the ability to place each individual root to create a consistent, even nebari surrounding the tree.

Thanks, Frank, I really appreciate the feedback. I may modify my plans to include a board inside the actual box. Or at the very least, do some of each and see what works better in my own environment.

 

[jradics]

I'll have to keep my eye out for some old melmac plates.

I've also made tiles out of cedar, which seem to be holding up well, but not sure how long they will last though.

was in walmart yesterday and saw a number of non-ceramic plates available. Didn't think about bonsai use but now i will

 

[River's Edge]

I am all for the experimentation. It is valuable when individuals like Bjorn, Boon, Michael, etc. point out the diverse thinking and experimentation that others have done in the past. What I find important for me is to always ask why, and does it fit for my situation and objectives. Whether it is Japan, USA, Germany or Ireland, what can we learn from their work and adapt for our situation. A good idea is a good idea, wherever it is found.

 

[River's Edge]

was in walmart yesterday and saw a number of non-ceramic plates available. Didn't think about bonsai use but now i will

I am sure they have fancier names for the melamine plates in this day and age. The nickname is a bit outdated, unless you are close to my age or older.

 

[NateDyk47]

I am all for the experimentation. It is valuable when individuals like Bjorn, Boon, Michael, etc. point out the diverse thinking and experimentation that others have done in the past. What I find important for me is to always ask why, and does it fit for my situation and objectives. Whether it is Japan, USA, Germany or Ireland, what can we learn from their work and adapt for our situation. A good idea is a good idea, wherever it is found.

Totally agree! It's really good to know that there are always multiple ways to do something, especially if you have different objectives. It is a source of frustration at times as a beginner when different professionals (who obviously have had success and know way more than me) promote a particular method/technique as the only correct way to do something, rather than discussion the pros & cons of each or mentioning that this works best because of a particular objective, climate, etc.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

What's your experiences with oversized shallow grow boxes for maples?

Have you checked out the threads started by @clem ?

He is using wide shallow boxes. His pace and results are excellent. Links below

In terms of materials, I have not found anything better than wood. It is as durable as we need it to be, and allows us to easily fasten nails or staples. I have used tile, plastic, etc. and did not like the fact that I could not use stables. On very young material I use plastic discs (I usually cut out the bottoms of cracked pots), but once there is a need to specify exactly where certain roots should be, wood becomes very practical.

I have also used wood circles in taller pots as opposed to shallow boxes (see 2nd image). I do this knowing that all of my roots are going to hook 90-degrees downward into the substrate. That doesn't bother me because that's the point where I am going to prune all of the roots back to when I repot anyways. I have seen good rapid root-growth with this strategy - as much as shallow boxes, I would say. Its also nice that they take up less space on the bench - I would recommend trying both shallow boxes and taller (as in regular size) pots

Acer palmatum Katsura (5 trunks from cutting)

hello, here's a project for long time, with 5 trunks of Katsura. Never grown Katsura before but it looks good. I plan to let them grow so that the nebari will grow and fuse. I wish to have 70-80 cm high main trunk In the green house to protect it from the wind (i live near to the beach...

www.bonsainut.com

Acer palmatm deshojo (from cutting)

hello, here is another acer palmatum project : a deshojo that i bought 2 years ago. the tree in the nursery in september 2018 -> I bought it because of the nebari (from cutting) and the curve at the base of the trunk -> In march 2019 while repotting it -> In a woodbox to let it grow ->...

www.bonsainut.com

Acer palmatum beni chidori (from cutting)

hello, here's another palmatum projet : a beni chidori from cutting. The tree is the nursery in september 2019 -> I bought it because of its curves in thr trunk and the nebari -> The tree during repotting in march 2019 -> November 2019 -> The tree today : i think i'll cut the straight...

www.bonsainut.com

Acer palmatum beni tsukasa (from cutting)

I bought this palmatum in a nursery 3 years ago. here is the tree in november 2017-> In april 2018, i repot it in a large and flat woodbox + i cut the crown -> The Young leaves of the beni tsukasa cultivar -> In june of 2018 the summer growth starts -> August 2018 -> November 2018 ->...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[BobbyLane]

I was just going to mention Clem's maple threads, his results are exceptional.

 

[andrewiles]

Love Clem's progressions as well. I've been using Anderson deep propagation flats for small maples, with a wood board. They are roughly the same depth as the egg crates in the OP's post but not as long. Fairly cheap. One issue with the Anderson flats is that they are not rigid enough to avoid gentle deformations when you move them around. Probably not great for the roots...

Has anyone tried using a pegboard as the base? It would provide some drainage and any roots that go downward through the holes would eventually get choked, encouraging root division. It would have to be something with large enough spacing to avoid roots bridging between holes.

E.g.

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Have you checked out the threads started by @clem ?

He is using wide shallow boxes. His pace and results are excellent. Links below

In terms of materials, I have not found anything better than wood. It is as durable as we need it to be, and allows us to easily fasten nails or staples. I have used tile, plastic, etc. and did not like the fact that I could not use stables. On very young material I use plastic discs (I usually cut out the bottoms of cracked pots), but once there is a need to specify exactly where certain roots should be, wood becomes very practical.

I have also used wood circles in taller pots as opposed to shallow boxes (see 2nd image). I do this knowing that all of my roots are going to hook 90-degrees downward into the substrate. That doesn't bother me because that's the point where I am going to prune all of the roots back to when I repot anyways. I have seen good rapid root-growth with this strategy - as much as shallow boxes, I would say. Its also nice that they take up less space on the bench - I would recommend trying both shallow boxes and taller (as in regular size) pots

Acer palmatum Katsura (5 trunks from cutting)

hello, here's a project for long time, with 5 trunks of Katsura. Never grown Katsura before but it looks good. I plan to let them grow so that the nebari will grow and fuse. I wish to have 70-80 cm high main trunk In the green house to protect it from the wind (i live near to the beach...

www.bonsainut.com

Acer palmatm deshojo (from cutting)

hello, here is another acer palmatum project : a deshojo that i bought 2 years ago. the tree in the nursery in september 2018 -> I bought it because of the nebari (from cutting) and the curve at the base of the trunk -> In march 2019 while repotting it -> In a woodbox to let it grow ->...

www.bonsainut.com

Acer palmatum beni chidori (from cutting)

hello, here's another palmatum projet : a beni chidori from cutting. The tree is the nursery in september 2019 -> I bought it because of its curves in thr trunk and the nebari -> The tree during repotting in march 2019 -> November 2019 -> The tree today : i think i'll cut the straight...

www.bonsainut.com

Acer palmatum beni tsukasa (from cutting)

I bought this palmatum in a nursery 3 years ago. here is the tree in november 2017-> In april 2018, i repot it in a large and flat woodbox + i cut the crown -> The Young leaves of the beni tsukasa cultivar -> In june of 2018 the summer growth starts -> August 2018 -> November 2018 ->...

www.bonsainut.com

Thanks for digging up these links!