Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?

[rockm]

While Ryan was actually working on a pond cypress (T. ascendens), his information was up to par on the current theories on bald cypress function and design.

The real problem is two of the most common theories on bald cypress function are wrong. Knees are not gas exchangers (they're starch storage). Roots aren't swollen with water (they're swollen with air pathways). Given that Ryan's studio is 1700 miles from the closest natural habitat for bald cypress, I'm cutting him a lot of slack.

One thing that Ryan said that I'd like to try is that bald cypress do well in 100% Akadama. Here in the South, we shy away from Akadama because it breaks down very quickly and becomes a waterlogged muck. But these are bald cypress we're dealing with, so waterlogged muck may not be a bad thing. Further, the CEC of Akadama is pretty good for holding fertilizer. Haydite and lava rock have very low CEC values. I'd like to get a couple of bags of Akadama just to try it on bald cypress and compare it to my 30/70 haydite/pine bark mix. I'm getting two pallets of lava rock delivered today. I'll have to save up for the Akadama experiment.

Thus: Ryan has me wanting to try a 100% Akadama experiment on my bald cypress. I think it has merit.

Still worth the price to belong to Mirai Tier 3.

I wouldn't go with Ak for much of anything. I've used it straight and mixed for stuff, including Bald Cypress. Not really worth the extra cash.

The non-fired (non-double line stuff) turns to anaerobic mush in our freeze thaw cycle pretty quickly here in Va. that is a bad thing even for bald cypress. I have a hard time taking much of Ryan's advice on BC or pond cypress seriously. He has a pretty typical pond cypress bonsai on his site. Collected by Mary Madison, but design is just OK...His talent shines on western conifers.

If I could spare the time and money to sit down and watch bonsai vids, I'd probably spring for the package.

I get a kick out of people who begrudge him charging for videos and how he should be giving shit away because it's "in the spirit of bonsai."

Puhleeeeze. He's invested time and sweat and money in his business. His vids are at a premium because his work and Japan-trained talent is exceptional and progressive. And FWIW, a personal visit from other bonsai professionals can cost as much as the top tier vids on Neil's site.

He's found a way to make money at it--which is no small feat in the brutal bonsai biz. We long-timers can tick off a dozen or more failed bonsai businesses that used to be around. The "spirit" of bonsai biz (in Japan especially) has been to make money at it. That is hardly easy--which as anyone who IS ACTUALLY IN the business end of bonsai can tell you.

I'm no fan of cults of personality, but I also understand the appeal of paying for top tier videos. I've snuck into a Ryan Neal workshop IRL to observe. He knows what he talking about and what he's doing. He's worth the $$ if you want to spend it--which is what all this boils down to. You have the money? spend it like you want.

 

[atlarsenal]

Have you tried chromecast? They're pretty cheap and allow you to copy your browser screen to your TV over wifi. A second hand one will cost you around 5 bucks.

No I haven't but I'll check in to it, thanks.

 

[brewmeister83]

"I don't know too many people that give away what they have learned and labored over for free"

Are you serious? That's the norm, most videos are free, he's the outlier in trying to charge hundreds - he must be truly special to command that premium, I just wish he'd give a teaser of this specialness in his free youtubes, because I've seen all of them and only found a handful of 'unique' ideas I hadn't heard elsewhere... Youtube is awash in bonsai videos by long-time pro's, and while I'm not saying Ryan is incompetent or anything he's also not some superstar that's pioneering this industry, so for him to put out a video series that's (to the best of my knowledge) the most expensive online bonsai videos money can buy, well, that just sounds like a cash-grab to me :/

Saw this yesterday and it got me thinking, but before I commented I figured I should watch at least a couple of Ryan's free vids on bonsai mirai and see how they compare to other free videos on youtube. And I gotta say, good vids, but for me it was pretty rough... Don't get me wrong - no slight intended against Ryan Neil, he is a wealth of information even in his free vids and produces some beautiful trees, but for me (as a viewer) his personality just didn't "click" with me, so I know as good as his other vids may be or what info he may drop in a paid vid, I would have a hard time sitting through them - it kind of reminded me of when I was forcing myself to sit through certain lectures in college. Again, nothing against Ryan, this is purely my personality just not "jiving" with his and/or his delivery.

So I though to myself "Is there anyone else like Ryan Neil who is formally Japanese trained and puts out free vids and paid lectures (preferably less than $300) that I do get into and enjoy watching?" Well, I wasn't sure about the paid part, but there's someone I've been watching on youtube for years who puts out really informative vids that I do enjoy watching. Heck, there have been many times I've gone back and watched the same vid or vlog, not just for the info, but because I found them enjoyable to watch - the vids are relaxed and groovy/funky and his demeanor is calm and laid back but still assertive and professional in his delivery - this works for me big time. So I checked around and found that he does have paid lecture series and specie specific masterclass vids on his site - for $20-60. Sure, not the same "live" format as Ryan, and he doesn't have an extensive catalogue of specie videos yet, but $25 for specific seasonal care and development techniques for juniper from a guy who worked in a Japanese bonsai nursery for the better part of a decade - now that I can do. Plus, I've watched his youtube channel for years, and buying his courses, in my mind at least, would be a nice "thank you" for years of enjoyable content.

I haven't mentioned this other person's name out of respect for Ryan Neil since this thread is about his online course, but If you are curious who I am talking about just search "$200K bonsai" on youtube. Cool demonstration vid showing the caliber of trees this guy can work on.

 

[Vance Wood]

Yes he is good and closer to me than Ryan.

 

[Cable]

I don't think mentioning Bjorn is a slight. I'll get to see him this fall but not up close and personal. I've watched his videos and I'm the opposite of brewmeister83. I didn't care for Bjorn's videos but I liked Ryan's so much I signed up for Tier 2. It's great that there's a wide range of talented folks so everyone can match up with their personal yoda.

 

[reddog]

I'm a tier 3 member of mirai. Content is good but he does tend to repeat himself (drone) on certain things. I wait for the archives after they have been posted because of network issues. I've captured the network data requested by kendell but no resolution to the problem. Not a real issue size I just watch two or three days later. I respect ryan neil's knowledge and skill but not his personality. He comes off forced/trying too hard in my opinion. Bjorn is seems more real...what you see is what you get. Hagedorn has done a handful of videos. Good info but never seems comfortable in front of camera. I'm very happy to pay for good content and appreciate the efforts by all the bonsai artists.

 

[M. Frary]

I like Vances videos.

 

[Vance Wood]

I like Vances videos.

Thank you Mike, I appreciate your input and support. It bothers me Mike that the majority of the input on Mirai that falls into the negative area are posted by people who have not been doing bonsai for too long and because of their knowledge level should be appreciative of the information offered as is. Ryan has an abundance of free information, that demonstrate the one thing he does best; his artistic skill. Most of bonsai can be learned from books but seeing the artistic transformation of a tree step by step is priceless. Or---you can go to Japan as an apprentice and see what that costs you, assuming the master will put up with your thinking you know everything already and keep you or thow you out the door.

For those who seem to think Ryan is ripping them off I would really like to see examples of their work. You know what took me the longest time to learn? How to keep my mouth shut.

 

[M. Frary]

You know what took me the longest time to learn? How to keep my mouth shut.

I still haven't got that one down.
I don't watch the videos but can see the attraction for a lot of people.
Styling a tree can be tough and it sounds like some are getting something out of watching the videos.
Good for them I say.

I just watch your videos to see your mug every now and again.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Yea I’m sure my boss would like me to work for free too but, tough shit! ?. Seems like some would prefer to dig a 10 foot hole in the ground and practice bonsai down there. Good riddance. Anyone that expects a bonsai PROFESSIONAL to give away hundreds of hours of content for free because they should be more “altruistic” is downright naive and disrespectful to the craft of bonsai itself. Sure it’d be great if pro athletes worked for free or rockbands played shows for free or if we didn’t have to pay our president. But as it goes for trees, tools, and many other things in life, you get what you pay for. ✌?

 

[brewmeister83]

Ryan has an abundance of free information, that demonstrate the one thing he does best; his artistic skill. Most of bonsai can be learned from books but seeing the artistic transformation of a tree step by step is priceless.

And as an artistic person myself I do get inspired watching those kinds of vids, they get me pumped, but then I go out into my back yard and start to wonder how what he did on a big old RMJ can be applied to all the deciduous stumps before me and I'll be damned if it doesn't leave me scratching my head

Maybe I should be taking lessons from bonsai growers on field developing stock instead... Anyone know of anyone offering a 15 year class on growing out trunks and primary branching?

 

[Vance Wood]

And as an artistic person myself I do get inspired watching those kinds of vids, they get me pumped, but then I go out into my back yard and start to wonder how what he did on a big old RMJ can be applied to all the deciduous stumps before me and I'll be damned if it doesn't leave me scratching my head

Maybe I should be taking lessons from bonsai growers on field developing stock instead... Anyone know of anyone offering a 15 year class on growing out trunks and primary branching?

Then you have to change your material and your approach. Still you have learned something.

 

[TN_Jim]

The podcast I look forward to. The youtube content is great, for me. I wish I had this amount of money to do this. If I did, I would, because the content is evident. Perhaps this has been said, but 3 kites (I call hundo's kites now) is nothing compared to a single ~3 mo. college course at any university.

I'm poor is what I'm saying. I can not afford this. But I suspect it is not a fat cat game at play. I respect what they are doing because what they are doing has thus far been worthwhile to me..for free..and it seems like the approach is open and from an acknowledgement of art, and not just in the traditional sense.

If you got it, do it. Do we want WalMrt Mirai? I took a dendrology course that changed my life..I don't blame the university for the cost. If I get sick, i'm going to Canada, and hopefully @SKBonsaiGuy will take my rude stupid ass in...but I don't protest on the doors of the art museum for annual membership cost (i used to think all art should be free!!!???((yes))..there are ways to get in free), or the woodworkers door for selling an $800 table when I can get a perfectly functional table from target...but the discussion here is practice.

My point is (10 pages deep), if I could afford it, I would..

 

[TN_Jim]

my opinion..pneumatophores (cypress) are for stability in rushing streams

 

[sorce]

@brewmeister83 I like Mirai Live BECAUSE it is like a college lecture.

I think that is the very thing that makes it better, its actually Educational!

It is on a whole different level.

IMO...
One needs a primer, the Bonsai4Me on Rules and Growing techniques works for me.
(And whatever time it takes that to sink in)

Then Mirai Live becomes worth it.

I believe there is a lot of information that can go misunderstood without a proper primer.

This is definitely college.
One needs High school first.
Not that you B don't have HS.

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

the deciduous stumps

Supposedly he knows all about these too!
He calls them "elongating" species.
He's divided out allvtree species into 3 categories.
Pine,juniper and elongating.
That's the part I don't agree with.
Elongating!
Making stuff up in Mirai land.

 

[Starfox]

When the wife suggests to me to have an evening of "Mirai and chill" then I reckon the value for money angle seems much more reasonable.

 

[Mike Hennigan]

When the wife suggests to me to have an evening of "Mirai and chill" then I reckon the value for money angle seems much more reasonable.

??? I’m dying hahahaha

 

[brewmeister83]

He's divided out allvtree species into 3 categories.
Pine,juniper and elongating.

Just curious... where do larch, spruce, fir and bald cypress fall in this classification scheme, because if they were to be put in the third category (since they're not pine or juniper), there are already a dizzying number of different cultivation techniques in "elongating species" without them...

This categorization brings to mind that scene from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" - "There's two kinds of people: Greeks and everybody else who wish they were Greeks"

Apparently I've got a boatload of non-Greeks in my tree yard, and Ryan's name is actually Gus Portokalos

Does that mean all my hawthorns and maples wish they were juni and pines?

And everyone who styles a broadleaf tree like a triangular pine or juni is like Aunt Voula saying "he looks Greek!"

Somehow I've likened Bonsai to My Big Fat Greek Wedding

Does that mean Windex really does fix everything? Let me go try that on a tree...

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Just curious... where do larch, spruce, fir and bald cypress fall in this classification scheme, because if they were to be put in the third category (since they're not pine or juniper), there are already a dizzying number of different cultivation techniques in "elongating species" without them...

This categorization brings to mind that scene from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" - "There's two kinds of people: Greeks and everybody else who wish they were Greeks"

Apparently I've got a boatload of non-Greeks in my tree yard, and Ryan's name is actually Gus Portokalos

Does that mean all my hawthorns and maples wish they were juni and pines?

And everyone who styles a broadleaf tree like a triangular pine or juni is like Aunt Voula saying "he looks Greek!"

Somehow I've likened Bonsai to My Big Fat Greek Wedding

Does that mean Windex really does fix everything? Let me go try that on a tree...

Spruce, fir, etc... these are classified as elongating species in Ryan Neil’s classification system. In fact that’s more what he’s referring to when he says elongating species. When he talks about deciduous he usually just says deciduous but has said that they can be viewed as elongating species on some level.

The thing you have to understand about his terminology with this stuff is that all this oversimplified classification system is referring to is where does the strength/energy lie in different species. It’s just a way to keep that information in your head in a simpler way. So... pine’s strength comes from the roots, juniper strength comes from the foliage, and elongating species strength comes from their vascular systems.

This is just an oversimplification to help us remember what we can get away with in a given amount of time with different species in terms of repotting, foliage reduction etc. believe me, Ryan’s not going to go out and write a botany textbook with these terms, he knows it’s an oversimplification. They’re just practical terms to help us understand how to approach bonsai in the day to day.