Lazylightningny
Masterpiece
Just couldn't bring myself to do it.
Is Bonsai Mirai Live Worth $300/year?
- Thread starter BillsBayou
- Start date
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Just remember that because someone has a difference of opinion or a difference in climate zones does not necessarily mean one or the other is wrong. The truth lies in the existing evidence. I have some serious differences in the way many of these nuvo masters treat their Junipers does not mean I am wrong, or force me to eat humble pie just to fit in. I'll never do that. Will I pay $300 on education? No, but there are a lot of people here that have the kind of income that wouldn't miss the $300 annual price tag. I don't fault him making a good living, if you could you would. I don't know too many people that give away what they have learned and labored over for free.
SU2
Omono
I don't think you will, and would bet dollars to donuts that the $300 worth of supplies or (hmmm- *and/or* ;D ) weed is a far superior choice!! If he's got secrets in this videos they'll leach out, though my guess is the 'secrets' are few and far between, and his videos are just (imo) unnecessarily lengthy, I've seen every one of his free videos and every one of them I can't help but thinking it should be like 50% of the final running-time he releases them at.
Sure, if you're rich then you won't notice the $ gone....but him excluding those who can't afford that doesn't jive with the idea that he's just trying to spread knowledge!
"I don't fault him for making a good living, if you could you would"
Depends, in the context you're saying - no, no I would not. I've quit jobs because I felt we were ripping people off and this is a similar enough situation, I wouldn't feel ethical doing that.
"I don't know too many people that give away what they have learned and labored over for free"
Are you serious? That's the norm, most videos are free, he's the outlier in trying to charge hundreds - he must be truly special to command that premium, I just wish he'd give a teaser of this specialness in his free youtubes, because I've seen all of them and only found a handful of 'unique' ideas I hadn't heard elsewhere... Youtube is awash in bonsai videos by long-time pro's, and while I'm not saying Ryan is incompetent or anything he's also not some superstar that's pioneering this industry, so for him to put out a video series that's (to the best of my knowledge) the most expensive online bonsai videos money can buy, well, that just sounds like a cash-grab to me :/
I think you should watch some. There are several videos for free, you can see them in his website or on their Mirai YouTube channel.
I’m sure if you watch those you will learn a thing or 2 here and there . .
If you just don’t watch them out of some principle you should put those thought aside and just be open to it.
As bonsai hobbiest I also find them entertaining to watch.
I can't afford watching payed content too. But it doesn't mean I wouldn't if I could. Enjoying free so far.
I think RN worked hard and payed enough to get where he is now. He is talented, skilled and educated so why should he do some other job for living and share bonsai for free?
Recently I've been working for a trading company for the the first time in my life and...jeez, I can't believe what can be sold and for how much. You know where the demand is... So why not?
Sn0W
Shohin
You clearly have no idea how business works, no one gives away High quality content for free, I'm not just talking about the knowledge contained within, I'm talking about the production that goes into it too. Yes they were kind of sketchy in the beginning but you can see how their production value has changed. You're not just paying for Ryan to stand there and talk at you for 2 hours, you're paying for the sound guy, the community liaison, the camera guy, the assistants, the guys that edit all of the footage and the guy that maintains the website. As well as all of the other costs incurred in running a business.
Take a look at Boon's pricing for instructional videos before you slate the price of Mirai, look at Bonsai Empire also. There is far more content on Mirai so it works out a hell of a lot less per video. $300 is wasted unless you can tune in live every time. $180 seems far more reasonable just for access to the archive which make the videos even cheaper.
You say you've found a handful of unique ideas in the free videos, there are what 18 free videos, with 4 or 5 filler content with no real value so lets say 13 total? Seems like pretty good odds to me. I get that some people won't be in to the whole streaming concept, some of the old timers probably don't feel like they can learn anything worth the subscription costs, but I feel like you're just hating for the sake of hating with no real basis.
You aren't watching it just for the knowledge he shares, you should be watching it to see the transformation of the tree in front of you. The fact he brings in material and works it through whilst explaining and answering questions, I'd argue that the video's aren't long enough. Some of the trees don't get finished on stream and I personally find that frustrating.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It kind of sounds to me like a lot of sour grapes from people that would probably complain if there was nothing available by any one either. It's really sad that there are so many people in this generation that believe they are owed something. Every body talks of intellectual property but few who really know what that means. This is probably why bonsai in America is at such a low level. We think so little of it that we resent those who have achieved a higher level and seem to have found a way to make a living from it.
erb.75
Chumono
100% agree. going to sign up eventually. the free stuff has rocked my thoughts. Instead of vague phrases on how to do bonsai that are all over the internet, he actually says stuff. Like, actually tells you what to do and then WHY he is correct. pretty dope.
erb.75
Chumono
I haven't found the info anywhere else. And I've looked hard, both online, in books, in person (to a limited extent...hard to be around professionals for countless hours on end)
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
There is an expression to the effect that things for free are seldom worth anything. I have found that advise offered on the forum at times is argued and put down and by lack of comment deemed of no value. So why bother? There seems to be of late an unspoken rule that anything offered without cost is probably worthless and anything that is offered at a price is a scam, and you wonder why people who know what they are talking about when it comes to bonsai are jumping ship.
Last edited:
Dalsom
Seedling
Worth every penny!
Been reading and consuming every bit of bonsai content I can find since 1989. (I have every edition of Bonsai Today for example.)
My large collection has improved leaps and bounds in less then one year of Bonsai Mirai consumption.
If this content was available when I began, I know my collection would be much more significant and impressive with much fewer losses.
Been reading and consuming every bit of bonsai content I can find since 1989. (I have every edition of Bonsai Today for example.)
My large collection has improved leaps and bounds in less then one year of Bonsai Mirai consumption.
If this content was available when I began, I know my collection would be much more significant and impressive with much fewer losses.
erb.75
Chumono
bnut has been great. I am not sure what your post is supposed to mean. as a side note, there is value in listening to a professional instead of people whose name you don't know. That being said, some of the best bonsai stuff has been on this site. some of you guys are really outstanding in your progressions! can't thank everyone enough!
Dalsom
Seedling
AMEN!!
Dalsom
Seedling
I strongly disagree with all your points. I’ve watched every bit of video content he has put out so far.
atlarsenal
Omono
Some of the earlier streams were unpolished and not the best camera work. All of the stuff from the last year is very professional. Only problem I see is they need to find a better solution with the white board on Q&A’s. Or be better prepared, Ryan has quite a bit of technical difficulties with that white board.
I switched from tier two to tier three about three months ago and it’s well worth it just to get the Q&A’s! I rarely watch anything live except when I’m on vacation when I don’t have to get up for work the next day.
Ryan is leaps and bounds ahead of any other videos out there! He explains everything he does and tells you why and when. I watched all the free stuff out there before I joined Mirai. Bonsai Iligan had great trees if you like all tropical and good entertainment with burps, farts and constant rooster crowing. Graham Potter had good stuff with carving and he did explain a lot but they could never figure out the audio. Ma-Ke is good but I guess YouTube won’t give him more than 5 minutes per video. There are others that are just ok. I still watch Sam Doecke “Aussie Bonsai Bloke”, it’s more unpolished, iPhone camera, kids screaming, dogs running around but it’s good entertainment and he’s a lot like me. (Got a lot of different trees and got to watch out for a pile of dog shit in the garden)
I pay for Mirai by the month, it comes out to about a $1 a day and it’s well worth every penny!!! I’m thinking of telling the wife I want a year subscription for my birthday.
Bottom line is Ryan will teach you more in a couple of months than all of the others will teach you in a year!
Only problem I have is, I wish I could cast the streams to my smart tv the way I do YouTube!
I switched from tier two to tier three about three months ago and it’s well worth it just to get the Q&A’s! I rarely watch anything live except when I’m on vacation when I don’t have to get up for work the next day.
Ryan is leaps and bounds ahead of any other videos out there! He explains everything he does and tells you why and when. I watched all the free stuff out there before I joined Mirai. Bonsai Iligan had great trees if you like all tropical and good entertainment with burps, farts and constant rooster crowing. Graham Potter had good stuff with carving and he did explain a lot but they could never figure out the audio. Ma-Ke is good but I guess YouTube won’t give him more than 5 minutes per video. There are others that are just ok. I still watch Sam Doecke “Aussie Bonsai Bloke”, it’s more unpolished, iPhone camera, kids screaming, dogs running around but it’s good entertainment and he’s a lot like me. (Got a lot of different trees and got to watch out for a pile of dog shit in the garden)
I pay for Mirai by the month, it comes out to about a $1 a day and it’s well worth every penny!!! I’m thinking of telling the wife I want a year subscription for my birthday.
Bottom line is Ryan will teach you more in a couple of months than all of the others will teach you in a year!
Only problem I have is, I wish I could cast the streams to my smart tv the way I do YouTube!
Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
Have you tried chromecast? They're pretty cheap and allow you to copy your browser screen to your TV over wifi. A second hand one will cost you around 5 bucks.
BillsBayou
Chumono
While Ryan was actually working on a pond cypress (T. ascendens), his information was up to par on the current theories on bald cypress function and design.
The real problem is two of the most common theories on bald cypress function are wrong. Knees are not gas exchangers (they're starch storage). Roots aren't swollen with water (they're swollen with air pathways). Given that Ryan's studio is 1700 miles from the closest natural habitat for bald cypress, I'm cutting him a lot of slack.
One thing that Ryan said that I'd like to try is that bald cypress do well in 100% Akadama. Here in the South, we shy away from Akadama because it breaks down very quickly and becomes a waterlogged muck. But these are bald cypress we're dealing with, so waterlogged muck may not be a bad thing. Further, the CEC of Akadama is pretty good for holding fertilizer. Haydite and lava rock have very low CEC values. I'd like to get a couple of bags of Akadama just to try it on bald cypress and compare it to my 30/70 haydite/pine bark mix. I'm getting two pallets of lava rock delivered today. I'll have to save up for the Akadama experiment.
Thus: Ryan has me wanting to try a 100% Akadama experiment on my bald cypress. I think it has merit.
Still worth the price to belong to Mirai Tier 3.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
(1) The title of this thread should be changed to "Is Bonsai Mirai worth $300 per year TO ME?"
(2) No one should comment if they haven't tried the paid service for at least one month. Otherwise it's a little like asking people their opinion of a car that they have never driven, or what it's like to visit a country they have never visited
Don't get me wrong, I clearly understand that $300 means different things to different people. There are plenty of people on this site who practice bonsai with collected trees, homemade soil, and homemade containers, and who probably spend less than $300 per year on the entire hobby. To other people $300 might be a single pot. You can appreciate how the value equation of a streaming bonsai education program would be different to each.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
You guys do realize that BC used to be native to climates like Michigan and all the way down the Ohio River Valley? It was the last ice age that killed off that species up here in Michigan. However they do well in landscapes here in Michigan. They do not necessarily have to grow in the tropics to prosper. They are in fact a tree similar to the Larch that can grow anywhere except under competition. Therefore both trees tend to find environments where there is little natural competition.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
(1) The title of this thread should be changed to "Is Bonsai Mirai worth $300 per year TO ME?"
(2) No one should comment if they haven't tried the paid service for at least one month. Otherwise it's a little like asking people their opinion of a car that they have never driven, or what it's like to visit a country they have never visited
Don't get me wrong, I clearly understand that $300 means different things to different people. There are plenty of people on this site who practice bonsai with collected trees, homemade soil, and homemade containers, and who probably spend less than $300 per year on the entire hobby. To other people $300 might be a single pot. You can appreciate how the value equation of a streaming bonsai education program would be different to each.
(1) The title of this thread should be changed to "Is Bonsai Mirai worth $300 per year TO ME?"
(2) No one should comment if they haven't tried the paid service for at least one month. Otherwise it's a little like asking people their opinion of a car that they have never driven, or what it's like to visit a country they have never visited
Don't get me wrong, I clearly understand that $300 means different things to different people. There are plenty of people on this site who practice bonsai with collected trees, homemade soil, and homemade containers, and who probably spend less than $300 per year on the entire hobby. To other people $300 might be a single pot. You can appreciate how the value equation of a streaming bonsai education program would be different to each.
You wrote:
(2) No one should comment if they haven't tried the paid service for at least one month. Otherwise it's a little like asking people their opinion of a car that they have never driven, or what it's like to visit a country they have never visited
This seems to be the way of things lately. People condemning things they don't practice or understand. Seriously, we are in-danger of discouraging the development of the next generation of bonsai artists. Funny thing; every body has the fantasy/dream of being a professional bonsai proprietor of a bonsai business/ traveling bonsai master but will declare that hell has come to abide in our presence when someone else does it.
Similar threads
