Is bonsai getting harder?

[Srt8madness]

Tell that to this guy... everything is sight is on Red lava.

Onuma's mini-bonsai growing techniques - Bonsai Tonight

Growing techniques from Kazuo Onuma for developing chojubai, shimpaku juniper, and Japanese maple.

bonsaitonight.com

Evidently it's lava sourced in the US that is the issue?

 

[BobbyLane]

Herons just imported an entire container of trees, he built an isolation area for the pines. There's a good video of it. Chan speaks to why the import still even though they are a grower nursery. Demand is there, and it is still profitable for him.

He imports, but not at the frequency he used to. They produce their own stock through air layering and field growing now. I got this straight from the horses mouth, well not Chan himself, but Terry one of his long time nursery hands.

 

[rockm]

Tell that to this guy... everything is sight is on Red lava.

Onuma's mini-bonsai growing techniques - Bonsai Tonight

Growing techniques from Kazuo Onuma for developing chojubai, shimpaku juniper, and Japanese maple.

bonsaitonight.com

If you read the article, it says the source of red lava has a lot to do with how it performs.

Is Lava Good For Bonsai?

This is a legitimate question. My master Shinji Suzuki never used lava (aka scoria), preferring just akadama and pumice. On coming back from Japan in 2006 I continued using the akadama / pumice mix…

crataegus.com

 

[leatherback]

Feels like bonsai has gotten easier. Information abundance. Experiences growers everywhere and good material available. Compared to having only books in japanese a few decades ago.

As a result, the level of bonsai has raised.

 

[Cajunrider]

Access to acquire bonsai, information about bonsai, techniques, tools, classes, bonsai enthusiasts to share have all become easier.

Convincing people that my crappy trees are bonsai have become harder. There are so many people nowadays that can easily call my BS.

My trees are all pre-bonsai and I am sticking to my claim.

 

[Shogun610]

that depends who you ask or in relation to specifically what in bonsai is harder or easier .
I think it’s easier for people to pawn off something they deem is good bonsai thanks to social media and sell on auction’s

 

[Maiden69]

If you read the article, it says the source of red lava has a lot to do with how it performs.

Is Lava Good For Bonsai?

This is a legitimate question. My master Shinji Suzuki never used lava (aka scoria), preferring just akadama and pumice. On coming back from Japan in 2006 I continued using the akadama / pumice mix…

crataegus.com

I did, but you know how many people mind works...

Someone posts: red lava is not good
Most: not using red lava again... it is the devil!

To note, there are quite a few bonsai artists from Japan that don't use lava at all. Nobuichi Urushibata from Taisho-en, Taiga's father don't use it, he uses a mix similar to what Michael says Suzuki uses, a 70% akadama / 30% kiryu. Where Suzuki uses 2/3 akadama / 1/3 kiryu. I have used lava sparingly, not a fan because of the weight. Mostly for trees that I want to weigh down.

FSA, I don't use lava in post anymore, I replaced it with Bonsai Jack Bonsai Block, which he recommends as a substitute for black lava. It has a much better profile, and looks 10 times better than black spots on the soil.

Evidently it's lava sourced in the US that is the issue?

I think this may be the case... especially when most people buying bonsai soil almost always go for the cheapest they can find. I have sourced lava from Amazon and from Bonsai Jack and I can tell you there is a big difference between the two, especially in profile and dust amount.

 

[Deleted member 47471]

Isn’t that the goal? The article even acknowledges that fact:



But speaking more broadly, when more people enter any creative domain, the overall quality goes up, and it gets harder to be the best, or even good.

I’ve seen a similar thing happen in Chess. A.I. and neural networks came into the scene, GMs improved their game, global interest boomed into another revolution, and now the next generation are stronger than the previous at earlier stages… and have raised the bar.

 

[ShadyStump]

raised the bar.

Uhg. Now it's going to smack me in the face in stead of the gut.

Good thing I'm wearing my hardhat of mediocrity.

 

[chicago1980]

Feels like bonsai has gotten easier. Information abundance. Experiences growers everywhere and good material available. Compared to having only books in japanese a few decades ago.

As a result, the level of bonsai has raised.

I agree.
You still need to have trees to practice and build your skills. There is a lot of great information online.

 

[Shogun610]

I’ve seen a similar thing happen in Chess. A.I. and neural networks came into the scene, GMs improved their game, global interest boomed into another revolution, and now the next generation are stronger than the previous at earlier stages… and have raised the bar.

God I hate tech companies

 

[PowerTap]

I'm still relatively new to bonsai, I will say that I love the abundance of information and helpful communities like this one and my local club (which I'm lucky to have an above average club which hosted Jonas just last night). But with many things online the abundance of information makes it both easier and harder.

Easier that I have so many people to ask and blogs to read. I have great examples to look at books to read and shows to go to.

Harder that I have to wade through all of it and decide what advice and which experts I want to listen too.

It's also harder because there is so many options to see across the board when you dice into the internet. You can walk yourself into little niches and not realize you've bet off more than you can chew.

One comment Jonas made last night was that the jurry for the Pacific Bonsai Expo disagreed wildly on the trees to put in the snow. So if even the best artists in North America will pick wildly different trees, then I am going to have so many opinions about what to do with my crappy stick in a pond basket.

 

[Cajunrider]

One comment Jonas made last night was that the jurry for the Pacific Bonsai Expo disagreed wildly on the trees to put in the snow. So if even the best artists in North America will pick wildly different trees, then I am going to have so many opinions about what to do with my crappy stick in a pond basket.

I am not sure that the best artists will even agree on “the pond basket”.

 

[NaoTK]

We have easier access to learning materials, but that makes the global quality expectations that much higher. Just look at Kokufu books from Kokufu 50 and compare to Kokufu 90. Back in Kokufu 50 as long as you had an old tree with pads you were good, now you need all the interesting features and perfect roots etc.

There is a generational divide in the US; I think of it as old school and new school. I own some old school trees started ~30 years ago where the roots were not trained properly and the branching is formulaic and the taper sucks. You can't blame these trees, that was the expectation 30 years ago and there was limited knowledge sharing. Young artists making trees from scratch these days are doing ebihara roots and field growing amazing taper etc. The next decade will be very exciting, but it is definitely harder to make a globally competitive tree.

 

[PowerTap]

Another thought, is that this is happening with almost every craft, profession, hobby exposed to the internet. The internet is awesome for letting us all get together and talk and shows us the whole spectrum of the craft from kokufu to the /r/bonsai beginner thread.

Influencer culture affects all of it.

 

[ShadyStump]

Now that I think of it, I believe we can expect the boom/bust phenomenon to be evident to an extent.
For example, just on this site, how many new users joined just because of the lockdowns in 2020, versus how many are still actually active now? Of course for bonsai the cycle could be measured in decades where other hobbies and practices it could be measured in months.

I think we're on the boom end of the cycle right now, and may reach market saturation as soon as 2030, at least here in the states. After that we'll see bonsai as a universally recognized practice, but actual activity will decline steadily and substantially, at which point we'd notice that the vast majority of trees are mediocre at best, and the online forums etc. are the hobbyists and competitors while 50% to 70% of trees are the equivalent of houseplants.

We could look to Japan as an indicator of things to come. As they industrialized in the 19th century, and socioeconomic stratification minimized with quality tools and more time becoming available as a result, bonsai exploded until WWII when military expansion took those people and tools away from their trees.
In the post-WWII era, however, we saw the expected mini boom during reconstruction, but never to the same level. Japan being a highly competitive culture, as the bar raised in bonsai fewer people feel it a worthwhile pursuit, and it's now on the decline.
It'll interesting to see how their continued cultural evolution proceeds in this respect.
Still, in Japan bonsai is still widely known and practiced, but on the houseplant level.

My point is, I think we can look for a similar phenomenon worldwide. Globalization will place bonsai on the general upswing for as much as another half century, at which point there will be somewhat of a market correction before plateauing into a relatively stead state.
My youngest daughter's bonsai will be nothing to brag about because they'll be mundane.

 

[Cajunrider]

Now that I think of it, I believe we can expect the boom/bust phenomenon to be evident to an extent.
For example, just on this site, how many new users joined just because of the lockdowns in 2020, versus how many are still actually active now? Of course for bonsai the cycle could be measured in decades where other hobbies and practices it could be measured in months.

I think we're on the boom end of the cycle right now, and may reach market saturation as soon as 2030, at least here in the states. After that we'll see bonsai as a universally recognized practice, but actual activity will decline steadily and substantially, at which point we'd notice that the vast majority of trees are mediocre at best, and the online forums etc. are the hobbyists and competitors while 50% to 70% of trees are the equivalent of houseplants.

We could look to Japan as an indicator of things to come. As they industrialized in the 19th century, and socioeconomic stratification minimized with quality tools and more time becoming available as a result, bonsai exploded until WWII when military expansion took those people and tools away from their trees.
In the post-WWII era, however, we saw the expected mini boom during reconstruction, but never to the same level. Japan being a highly competitive culture, as the bar raised in bonsai fewer people feel it a worthwhile pursuit, and it's now on the decline.
It'll interesting to see how their continued cultural evolution proceeds in this respect.
Still, in Japan bonsai is still widely known and practiced, but on the houseplant level.

My point is, I think we can look for a similar phenomenon worldwide. Globalization will place bonsai on the general upswing for as much as another half century, at which point there will be somewhat of a market correction before plateauing into a relatively stead state.
My youngest daughter's bonsai will be nothing to brag about because they'll be mundane.

I disagree. Aside from the boom cycle for bonsai, there is a bigger overriding trend. Years from now many people will be so far removed from nature. Planting anything used to be second nature to people. Nowadays planting cucumbers, squash etc. is unknown to the vast majority of people in the US. Bonsai will be like voodoo magic. Information on how to make bonsai will be abound but practical knowledge may be sparse.

What might happen is that people like our very own @cmeg1 will push the envelope and create monster bonsai fast. The rest of the people will just buy ready made bonsai from the like of Brussel bonsai dealer.

 

[rockm]

Now that I think of it, I believe we can expect the boom/bust phenomenon to be evident to an extent.
For example, just on this site, how many new users joined just because of the lockdowns in 2020, versus how many are still actually active now? Of course for bonsai the cycle could be measured in decades where other hobbies and practices it could be measured in months.

I think we're on the boom end of the cycle right now, and may reach market saturation as soon as 2030, at least here in the states. After that we'll see bonsai as a universally recognized practice, but actual activity will decline steadily and substantially, at which point we'd notice that the vast majority of trees are mediocre at best, and the online forums etc. are the hobbyists and competitors while 50% to 70% of trees are the equivalent of houseplants.

We could look to Japan as an indicator of things to come. As they industrialized in the 19th century, and socioeconomic stratification minimized with quality tools and more time becoming available as a result, bonsai exploded until WWII when military expansion took those people and tools away from their trees.
In the post-WWII era, however, we saw the expected mini boom during reconstruction, but never to the same level. Japan being a highly competitive culture, as the bar raised in bonsai fewer people feel it a worthwhile pursuit, and it's now on the decline.
It'll interesting to see how their continued cultural evolution proceeds in this respect.
Still, in Japan bonsai is still widely known and practiced, but on the houseplant level.

My point is, I think we can look for a similar phenomenon worldwide. Globalization will place bonsai on the general upswing for as much as another half century, at which point there will be somewhat of a market correction before plateauing into a relatively stead state.
My youngest daughter's bonsai will be nothing to brag about because they'll be mundane.

There are some places that track this kind of thing. Don't know how much I believe, but they have a few points...

https://www.databridgemarketresearch.com/reports/global-bonsai-market

 

[ShadyStump]

I disagree. Aside from the boom cycle for bonsai, there is a bigger overriding trend. Years from now many people will be so far removed from nature. Planting anything used to be second nature to people. Nowadays planting cucumbers, squash etc. is unknown to the vast majority of people in the US. Bonsai will be like voodoo magic. Information on how to make bonsai will be abound but practical knowledge may be sparse.

What might happen is that people like our very own @cmeg1 will push the envelope and create monster bonsai fast. The rest of the people will just buy ready made bonsai from the like of Brussel bonsai dealer.

I understand what you're getting at, but I've noticed that many people have gotten back to planting. There's an enormous amount of data pointing to 2020 as a catalyst for an explosion in outdoor related pursuits (which, of course drove up prices of related goods) chief among them gardening. Food prices in the US have been subject to steady inflation, and that's kept it going to a limited extent.
In situations where outdoor space isn't as much of an option, houseplants were the go-to.

Depending on the individuals' success and current situation, they didn't just throw out their plants, or leave the garden bed empty when the world opened up again. I'd speculate that a bare minimum of 10% of people who only started because of 2020 are still doing it. That's a substantial increase from the decades before, and likely way under valuing the actual numbers.

Being on the job hunt for the past 7 months, if researched and learned allot about how that's been effected, and the general theme of the past 2 years is that people have become disgusted with the notion of working their lives away just to survive. They didn't survive COVID just to go back to wage slavery. I'd go as far as saying there's cold war going on in the US labor market now.
People want meaning in their lives. Hobbies play a part in that where occupations fail, and pursuits involving plants and animals doubly so.

 

[Relic37]

Here's how much it has changed: In 1974 I was an ignorant college student, temporarily majoring in Botany. Based on a tiny sliver of knowledge I attempted to "bonsai" a sapling pine tree by wiring it with...a coat hanger. The tree died since I was attempting to grow it indoors by a window. My enthusiasm diminished until I retired. And now that I have the free time to indulge the hobby I am faced with the reality that my years on planet earth will ultimately preclude crossing the finish line on any of the trees I now have. But at least I now have the internet to learn which variety of coat hangers works best...