Intelligent conversation of the Literati

[JudyB]

A small and old larch with a very small canopy and really nice bark. Maybe it has overbearing DW, yet I never shorten them. Literati?View attachment 127141

Something about the dw nettles me in a way it's hard to explain. The tree speaks of solitude, but the deadwood trunk argues with that.

 

[crust]

Something about the dw nettles me in a way it's hard to explain. The tree speaks of solitude, but the deadwood trunk argues with that.

me too.

 

[Coach]

The pot, I actually made for the tree. Cultivating these Blue Rug Junipers is a challenge, root-wise, at least for me. Growing it in a super small pot would be untenable for me in my garden.

You made that pot! Wow...I love it.

I saw the exposed roots (which I like) after I posted and understand better now.

Your Larch looks like a father with his son...maybe the son is taking his first steps...very very moving. Thank you for sharing

 

[jacob letoile]

I take a little offense to this. It seems your putting everybody who owns ancient yamadori in this group. I'll just say straight forward, I only make about 13k a year, I have rent and utilitie bills, phone payments, car payments, food, gas, everything we all need right? 13k isn't much, I'm only 22 and work full time at a landscape nursery as the tree lot manager. Yet, I still own several trees that can be put into the 200+ YO realm. Do I pay a team to manicure and style and all that crap? No, I guarantee other then myself, my teacher Connie is the only person who touches my trees (and she won't even touch the yamadori.

On to the discussion of literati (or bunjin). I find it to be one of my favorite styles. It represents a struggle the tree has had to endure at a period of time, or throughout their entire lives. It gives character.
I've seen many literati type trees where I live, but they're all 10ft tall or under, most of these trees live in VERY high wind areas with little moisture or soil (rock outcrops). I'll keep my eye on this thread, literati is a very difficult style IMO.

Aaron

Aaron,
I was referring to the trees themselves not the people who keep them. I'm sorry I've my wording made that unclear.

 

[aml1014]

Aaron,
I was referring to the trees themselves not the people who keep them. I'm sorry I've my wording made that unclear.

No problem! We're all here to learn from each other. I understand what you mean.

Aaron

 

[milehigh_7]

I take a little offense to this. It seems your putting everybody who owns ancient yamadori in this group. I'll just say straight forward, I only make about 13k a year, I have rent and utilitie bills, phone payments, car payments, food, gas, everything we all need right? 13k isn't much, I'm only 22 and work full time at a landscape nursery as the tree lot manager. Yet, I still own several trees that can be put into the 200+ YO realm. Do I pay a team to manicure and style and all that crap? No, I guarantee other then myself, my teacher Connie is the only person who touches my trees (and she won't even touch the yamadori.

On to the discussion of literati (or bunjin). I find it to be one of my favorite styles. It represents a struggle the tree has had to endure at a period of time, or throughout their entire lives. It gives character.
I've seen many literati type trees where I live, but they're all 10ft tall or under, most of these trees live in VERY high wind areas with little moisture or soil (rock outcrops). I'll keep my eye on this thread, literati is a very difficult style IMO.

Aaron

Nothing to take offense at in this thread. If you get offended by what someone else "feels" then perhaps some self-reflection and deep breathing are in order. FWIW I happen to agree with him in many ways. Having grown up on a huge ranch of twisted RMJ and Pinion and Ponderosa and hiking the trails of the Sangre de Christos every summer, much of what I love about trees is lost in the "artificial" feel of highly manicured trees.

That said I have come to appreciate them for what they are and the skill that they represent. To me, it's an abstract of nature and literati even more so. It's almost like a theologian trying to explain the divine. We can sense it, feel it and even experience it but sometimes we can write volumes and never quite explain it.

 

[aml1014]

Sangre de Christos every summer

My grandmother owns 76 acres in northern NM, probably my favorite place in the world.

Aaron

 

[coh]

For anyone who would like a good book on the subject, I'd recommend "Literati Style Penjing" by Zhao Qingquan.

I'll second this, it has become one of my favorite and most referred to books. Some of the case histories are interesting, as it is rather amazing how very small changes (often a slight bend/adjustment to the trunk) can make a world of difference.

 

[JudyB]

hiking the trails of the Sangre de Christos every summer,

Sorry off topic for a sec, we are looking to retire to Westcliffe...

 

[MichaelS]

I'll just say for now that (to me) most attempts, including Japanese ones, fail. A good bunjin should be unpredictable to start with. We should not try to make them by viewing other man made examples.
Here's a real one.... (sorry bad pic)

 

[milehigh_7]

Sorry off topic for a sec, we are looking to retire to Westcliffe...

That's the area...

 

[wireme]

I'll just say for now that (to me) most attempts, including Japanese ones, fail. A good bunjin should be unpredictable to start with. We should not try to make them by viewing other man made examples.
Here's a real one.... (sorry bad pic)

View attachment 127185

I had a look at my little album of cool tree pics I've taken. It's like when looking at bonsai that may or may not be literati, some of them don't quite fit the category but don't really belong anywhere else either.

 

[wireme]

...

 

[wireme]

...

 

[Smoke]

It's like when looking at bonsai that may or may not be literati, some of them don't quite fit the category but don't really belong anywhere else either.

That's it in a nutshell.

There has been just enough written about Literati that the form gets short shrift. Do we need a new form? Minimalistic style?

What do we call these more heavy feeling trees with minimal branching, minimal canopy and thinnish sparse trunk for two thirds of the tree?

 

[JudyB]

What do we call these more heavy feeling trees with minimal branching, minimal canopy and thinnish sparse trunk for two thirds of the tree?

Good question. I think that literati is not the place to put them. Although it's the best placement we have at this time.

 

[Smoke]

Good question. I think that literati is not the place to put them. Although it's the best placement we have at this time.

Why?

 

[Smoke]

You see...I placed the bait and now the answers....

How many people know exactly what a Literati is, and how does that relate to bonsai and isn't that exactly what we are doing. The exact reason for the title. Easy peasy.

We are now Literati pondering confusing trees.

 

[Random User]

@Jacob

"I guess that is what I love about literati, it is not trying to be anything it's not."

Keep THAT in mind when you design your literati, because the "horticulture" part of this hobby will cause you to create a "poser" every time. In short, when the #1 rule (or concern) is that we have healthy trees first, it's difficult to create a tree that at least "appears" to be stressed...

 

[Random User]

Smoke, what you created yesterday would fit into Walter Palls "fairy tale" category, IMHO... because of the "feeling" I get looking at it. Without being offensive, I've seen nothing in nature (in my life) that tells me that it is realistic... for a number of reasons.