I'm the New Caretaker for an Old Larch Grove, looking for insight.
- Thread starter Rivka
- Start date
Waldo
Yamadori
Rivka, IF you have not already, you might want to take a look at this video, On YouTube, and a few others that Nigel has on Larches. There is not a lot of good info on Larch or Tamarack But Nigel has about 4 or 5 videos on the progression and care of a Larch forest. Might not answer all of your questions. But I think you will find them helpful. Hopefully Peter will switch to decaf and re-read the guidelines for the forum. Good luck with your Forest. I think it has potential.
Nigel Saunders larch forest
Nigel Saunders larch forest
Cadillactaste
Neagari Gal
He apologised...sincerely. Give the man his coffee.
Waldo
Yamadori
EXCELLENT ! Life is good !He apologised...sincerely. Give the man his coffee.
Rivka
Shohin
Watched all the videos and will again and again.
Slipped the intire rootball untouched into a just barely larger pot and poured pumice in the small space left over. The only pot basicly fell apart in my hands, UV damage / dry rot
cleaned off most all moss and linchen that were anywhere near growing branches, left it on some interesting lower branches that are already deadwood.
took out most all of the rooted weeds, left a fewctypes of wonderful most and lichen, mostly on the large volcanic rock itself. It looks lovely andis enjoying the sun now i wait and see how it does.
Slipped the intire rootball untouched into a just barely larger pot and poured pumice in the small space left over. The only pot basicly fell apart in my hands, UV damage / dry rot
cleaned off most all moss and linchen that were anywhere near growing branches, left it on some interesting lower branches that are already deadwood.
took out most all of the rooted weeds, left a fewctypes of wonderful most and lichen, mostly on the large volcanic rock itself. It looks lovely andis enjoying the sun now i wait and see how it does.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Bigger pot and cut back
I live in Vancouver and just got a nursery stock kotobuki is it too late to put in a bigger pot and cut back some off the top. I was just going to leave e original root ball and fill in around it wi Th bonsai mix thank
Sorce
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
?
Rivka
Shohin
Wanted to update this thread and my Larch Grove, which made it thru the year well. So now I work on sorting out repotting issues, learning how to trim these unique trees and digging into (maybe quite literally) the root over rock aspect and what the event of that actually is.
Just gave it a light winter clean up, just removing dropped and dangling needles and a small amount of the surrounding layer of pumice so that i could take a look at things.
This is the pot we made to size to slip it into, no work was done to the roots when we gently repotted from its nasty no drainage nightmare, besides hosing the large ant colony out as best we could from its large cove it has hollowed out. We then slid it into this airpot and back filled with nothing but fresh volcanic pumice to allow for drainage and airflow without it being a shocking change for a Larch in early summer heat.
It thanked me to two really all over flushes of growth over the summer, which were just so nice to watch go thru their stages, and of course a lovely autumn wash of amber color that started o so slow and then flashed so fast i didn't even get a picture of it in its fun glory. I will not make that same mistake next year.
a reminder of what i was working with last June and after some careful slip potting, some summer growth and fall color:
Just gave it a light winter clean up, just removing dropped and dangling needles and a small amount of the surrounding layer of pumice so that i could take a look at things.
This is the pot we made to size to slip it into, no work was done to the roots when we gently repotted from its nasty no drainage nightmare, besides hosing the large ant colony out as best we could from its large cove it has hollowed out. We then slid it into this airpot and back filled with nothing but fresh volcanic pumice to allow for drainage and airflow without it being a shocking change for a Larch in early summer heat.
It thanked me to two really all over flushes of growth over the summer, which were just so nice to watch go thru their stages, and of course a lovely autumn wash of amber color that started o so slow and then flashed so fast i didn't even get a picture of it in its fun glory. I will not make that same mistake next year.
a reminder of what i was working with last June and after some careful slip potting, some summer growth and fall color:
Rivka
Shohin
So now I start its new year, thinking of repotting with the two goals of:
The second image is the 180 of that, which overwhelmingly fans out the branches in the fullest display, though moves the trunks to the front of the pot and hides the rock and much of the trunks.
- Going a few inches shallower. Most of the bottom few inches is nothing but the small bottom curve of the old rootball and tons of pumice. This is due to the old pot having a very curved bottom and not wanting to mess with anything when we were forced to slip-pot last June. This pot has an air gap on the bottom 2" already. Since AirPots are height and width adjustable, I can remove the bottom, work the bottom of the root ball, and move the pot section upwards without tampering with the sides if that is what is needed.
- Work on defining the extent, shape, and involvement of this large black lava rock. This thing appears to be under nearly the entire grove, and I have no idea how deep it is or how entangled it is. I have been told that the grove used to sit in a significantly shallower pot, and we believe that it has been a root over rock for most of its days. So it begs the question, how do we probe and discover without injury?
The second image is the 180 of that, which overwhelmingly fans out the branches in the fullest display, though moves the trunks to the front of the pot and hides the rock and much of the trunks.
Rivka
Shohin
The next step will be to understand more of what i can do with pruning and culture to help growth this year. I don't have any huge urge to made big changes, more to clean and define layers enough to understand how its grows and responds to pruning, and then learn from it for the year.
There is a tad more straightening to do, but it has overwhelmingly responded to very gentle anchoring, a little to itself, a little to the pot. These were all upright at one point and it clearly remembers.
There is a tad more straightening to do, but it has overwhelmingly responded to very gentle anchoring, a little to itself, a little to the pot. These were all upright at one point and it clearly remembers.
Rivka
Shohin
Not sure what you are specifically referring to as a "good cleaning", would you like to elaborate?
I'm not sure if you read back thru the thread into the history of it (i admit it a headache to read some of it, that's why i reposted important picts and gave a recap) While this has been a bonsai for more than 60 years, it had a period of neglect from an interim owner over the past 5, maybe as much as 10 years.
So while styling would be fun, I'm think I'm going to focus on the truck alignment and branching density before final shaping of upper branches, since that could change as the trunks move in relation to each other. Also it does no good to think about what styling it might be good for, till i sort out what this huge black rock is and what its shape lends itself too.
There seem to be still a lot of moss and lichen on the branches. Why I don’t mind a bit of lichen, it just looks like there is way to much on it. So by cleaning Id try to remove as much as possible without damaging the bark.
as for styling, it just looks like it’s healthy enough to position some branches but you probably are more knowledgeable about its health.
and as for me, I wouldn't have the patience to not try to improve the aesthetics as it’s too fun to play around with.
Rivka
Shohin
In the Pacific NorthWest of the US, where I live and grew up, old temperate rainforests tower above all.
These wet lush expanses are a vibrant cacophony of mosses, lichen, fungus and ferns. The ancient is alive everywhere. I can hardly picture a forest without these.
So my personal preference, I'm sure, stems from a childhood living within those woods.
Thankfully art is personal and bonsai is art.
So while I'm sure there is lot of editing and cleaning to come at various times for this grove, it will likely always have lots of growth like this.
These wet lush expanses are a vibrant cacophony of mosses, lichen, fungus and ferns. The ancient is alive everywhere. I can hardly picture a forest without these.
So my personal preference, I'm sure, stems from a childhood living within those woods.
Thankfully art is personal and bonsai is art.
So while I'm sure there is lot of editing and cleaning to come at various times for this grove, it will likely always have lots of growth like this.
Rivka
Shohin
Whereas Peter44 laughed because they are in Eastern Oregon, where shit is flat and brown and gets less than 1/4 the rainfall of the western Oregon town where I grew up. It's the same state, but might as well be a million miles and a world away, for so many reasons. Plus Peter doesn't know how to "move on" as he explained in post #61.
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Wires_Guy_wires
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't want to meddle in your romantic affairs with Peter, but I believe cleaning those trees would benefit them on the long run.
Interior dormant buds can be lost if they get too old. The moss and lichen will eventually grow back, dead buds will not.
I won't judge if you want to keep that moss and stuff, but in a couple years you might look back and think "If only I had removed it in 2021, then I'd have more branches and a more energetic tree to work with right now..".
Especially if moss and lichen are abundant in your area, it makes sense to think about what needs to come first; tree health and vigor for years to come, or aesthetic accessories right now.
My reasoning is usually like this: More branches = more foliage = more energy = better health = less susceptible to issues, better healing and more to cut off without risks.
Losing branches is the easy part. Growing them back isn't.
Interior dormant buds can be lost if they get too old. The moss and lichen will eventually grow back, dead buds will not.
I won't judge if you want to keep that moss and stuff, but in a couple years you might look back and think "If only I had removed it in 2021, then I'd have more branches and a more energetic tree to work with right now..".
Especially if moss and lichen are abundant in your area, it makes sense to think about what needs to come first; tree health and vigor for years to come, or aesthetic accessories right now.
My reasoning is usually like this: More branches = more foliage = more energy = better health = less susceptible to issues, better healing and more to cut off without risks.
Losing branches is the easy part. Growing them back isn't.
Rivka
Shohin
Oh i agree woth the potential health conflict.
and I cleaned it before, i just said i will keep cleaning it. I just started working on it for the first time in 6 months. I was just stating that in the end, that it will likely have more than most folks like. Im not disagreeing with the health issue at all, simply with the esthetic judgment
and I cleaned it before, i just said i will keep cleaning it. I just started working on it for the first time in 6 months. I was just stating that in the end, that it will likely have more than most folks like. Im not disagreeing with the health issue at all, simply with the esthetic judgment
Rivka
Shohin
I want to clarify and apologies a bit for something that Wires_Guy helped point out.
I have been annoyed at folks pushing their esthetic on my grove and there person dislike for the moss, and they have gotten pushy. However I was letting that drown out folks chiming in with good intentioned, health motivated, advice related to getting the branches more sun and air tp sprue and support growth. This second point is not about looks, it's about health and the benefits are not up for debate, the trees will be happier and healthier with more sun and air exchange. Some folks had a hard time keeping their views and facts separate, and I am guilty of a bit of tossing the baby with the bathwater.
I have been annoyed at folks pushing their esthetic on my grove and there person dislike for the moss, and they have gotten pushy. However I was letting that drown out folks chiming in with good intentioned, health motivated, advice related to getting the branches more sun and air tp sprue and support growth. This second point is not about looks, it's about health and the benefits are not up for debate, the trees will be happier and healthier with more sun and air exchange. Some folks had a hard time keeping their views and facts separate, and I am guilty of a bit of tossing the baby with the bathwater.
So the grove got hours of detailed monotonous cleaning over the past few days and it will be very much the better for it. As Wires_guy points out, I have no trouble letting lichen's grow later on areas that have no potential for bud growth. Hopefully the cleaning was gentle enough to not harm growth, and thorough enough to make it worthwhile, spring shall be the judge on that.
