I'm the New Caretaker for an Old Larch Grove, looking for insight.

[Rivka]

Well I did it, today was repotting day. Terrifying, been dreading it.
But we have happy brushy growth, great growing weather all week, got my stack of anderson flats and media waiting, there was no more excuses

Some discoveries as I worked the soil out.

• Previous repottings had left layer after layer of metal screen in the roots, I spend ages carefully cutting away no leas than 7 pieces in what was clearly at least 3 but probably 4 repotting layers, I felt like an anthropologist. It is common to leave those in there strangling roots? Seemed nuts to me.
• The roots were doing great, there had been respectable growth in just the last 8 months that had extended into the pumice that I had slip potted it into, despite me not daring to loosen the rootball even one millimeter last summer as I was forced to repot badly out of season.
• The Large black lava? rock was smaller than the previous owner inferred, and less locked in to the trees than I would have thought. once i removed the main dead root mass left over from a previously removed the 5th tree (by previous owner) the remaining tree cluster lifted away from the rock cleanly.
• The rock itself after removing piled up dirt, was fairly flat and in the final composition, I decided to shift the rock to a more dynamic angle. It has more of a mountain top feel to it now. I hope I got the trees back up against it in a natural looking connection. I’ll look at it fresh in the morning and see if I need to adjust or fill in some gaps with regrowing moss and lichen on the rock
  
  
• The 4th tree that was at an angle was fairly easy to remove from the other 3, once i removed it (intenting to striaghten it and put it back in the composition) I liked the rest of grove a ton better. 4 straight tree trunks really is awful to my geometry loving eye. So the 4th tree got planted separately and I’m going to explore how to reincorporate in the future. (Can you air layer larch? It work a lot better at a significantly lower height.

So now i wait and let it grow, its bursting with growth every where, its been well cleaned, conservatively trimmed back, now repotted, the only thing left for it to do is enjoy the spring and grow on a quiet bench.

 

[leatherback]

It is common to leave those in there strangling roots?

I have seen it several times. I think it has to do with nurseries not taking time to properly work the roots when repotting. Is it common, unfortunately, yes. Is it right? Nope. Absolutely not.

 

[leatherback]

Curious to see this after the repotting.
Have you at all considered adding a small tree in there, to add a little lower branching in the back?

 

[Rivka]

Curious to see this after the repotting.
Have you at all considered adding a small tree in there, to add a little lower branching in the back?

Yeah i was thinking of using the 4th tree as a parent stock of sorts and getting a number of air-layered parts from it, if that’s possible. Its form is interesting but not great and it may be the best way for it to contribute to the grove by providing additional smaller and lower interest while keeping all the trees older with similar aged bark and true to the orginal grove of so long ago.

The guy I got this from has 2 or 3 other matching trees he long ago took out of the grove as well (such a shame it was broken up so much. I have asked to buy them and add them back in, he is not ready to part with them, but will send them my way if he ever is.
I wish I had a clear answer to what type of larch it exactly is, if i knew that, i would feel better about adding more plants from an outside source. All i know is that it is not Japanese.
I’ll take pictures in the morning of the refreshed composition.

 

[Rivka]

I have seen it several times. I think it has to do with nurseries not taking time to properly work the roots when repotting. Is it common, unfortunately, yes. Is it right? Nope. Absolutely not.

Though this has been in private hands for more than 60 years, so there is even less excuse. But i can tell it was repotting the last two times in progressivly larger pots each time without working the roots. As I carefully worked thru them, I could see the shape of pots past, cast in walls of roots still holding to each form. So at least for the last few repotting, it had clearly not been attended to rootwise.

 

[leatherback]

Though this has been in private hands for more than 60 years, so there is even less excuse. But i can tell it was repotting the last two times in progressivly larger pots each time without working the roots. As I carefully worked thru them, I could see the shape of pots past, cast in walls of roots still holding to each form. So at least for the last few repotting, it had clearly not been attended to rootwise.

There is incompetence that comes in, but also just fear. As you have noticed yourself: It can take a lot of effort to reduce the rootball, and it comes with a risk of killing it. I could imagine that the previous owner at some point was unable physically to do the work, or was thinking short term?

 

[Rivka]

Yeah the owner before me has readily acknowledged their lack of time or skill to keep the grove in its best form, that is why they passed it on. And the long term owner before that, had aged out of the hobby and passed what I hear was a spectacular and large collection on to members of her local community, only to pass away within the season. So I’m sure it was a number of fairly understandable factors.
I’m just thrilled I got all the screens and old decomposed soil out and the massive excessive depth of the rootball wrangled without cutting more than about 5% of the roots, maybe way less. The roots unfurled smoothly and its mass is shallow and wide now. All spread out with plenty of growing room while on a good path to highlight the root over rock it is at its core. In the interim, its got a few additional inches of soil for growing and provide consistency while it fills in and fluffs up.

 

[leatherback]

I have found larch to be a bit sulky after extenisve rootwork. MIght have to be carefull if a week of hot dry weather decides to pop by over the next 2 months.

 

[Rivka]

We are in our happy medium rainy season. 70’s (low 20’s) cool nights and fairly regular rainstorms. Its “grow like crazy” season here! We wont hit “hot and dry” for more than 3 months

 

[Rivka]

Larch are flushing out well, looks like there is one smaller main branch that decided to hold a grudge, but growth across the rest look good.


it was really fun to watch the opening like little green fireworks.
watching these deciduous conifers come to life, I am just in love with them even more, what a little platypus they are.

 

[Rivka]

the 4th tree that got temporary displaced is really kinda fun, still pondering air layering it to shorten and tip, would then replant in the grove for a nice lower canopy once it was stable.

 

[Rivka]

growth seems decent, though i have nothing to compare to. Lots of budding still to go even. Start pinching the extending growth soon, correct?
I have a question about what appears to be two types of growth on it, saw this last summer as well.
some of the growth seems like it plans to stay short, a single clean open sunburst, these have a tiny nub in the center. I pointed to the two examples in the picture below. The other type of growth looks like its planning on extending into branch?

At first i thought it was about it it was at the tip of a branch or not, but now i don’t see a pattern as much. What is difference , cause? And I’m assuming when they talk about plucking 2/3rd of the brush, they are only talking about the fuller ones that look about ready to extend, not these sunbursts.

 

[leatherback]

Start pinching the extending growth soon, correct?

too lazy to back through previsou post but I think you took quite some invasive steps on the roots this winter, right? In that case, better to just let the branches extend pushing the roots to grow out too. Once you see the new buds appear on the branches, trim back to 2 buds per branchlet.

 

[Rivka]

too lazy to back through previsou post but I think you took quite some invasive steps on the roots this winter, right? In that case, better to just let the branches extend pushing the roots to grow out too. Once you see the new buds appear on the branches, trim back to 2 buds per branchlet.

I repotted it this spring at first green, i did have to carefully cut some old screen sections out of the roots and worked some really decomposed soil out, but thankfully things opened up really easy and could see good evidence of last years fine root grown that had gone into the pumice i had slip potted into last june (with zero root work, just placed in a slightly larger pot and filled in gap with pumice)
while in some ways it went thru a big change, even if it was all for the better; it thankfully did not get root trimmed or reduced at all, just laid out in a wider deep flat with way better draining soil.

 

[Rivka]

Ok I’ll let things go for a bit in most places. Some the growth is pushing into neighboring growth pads, im working on shaping thru directing branch development and avoiding wiring when possible, so I may pluck out just those spots and leave the rest.
I thought plucking like this encouraged growth? Not the right type to encourage roots?

 

[Rivka]

Growth has been steady and seems strong, of course I no not have much reference point. It has gone through two full flushes and seems to be readying a third. The new extending branchlets now are getting a few brushy side budding. So all in all I am starting to think I’m going a decent job on the trees that were entrusted to me.
These were repotted into anderson deep flats in early spring, compacted soil removed from roots along with many embedded screens. Thankfully very little roots were pruned at all, things were just gently splayed out to the wider shallower container.

The main 3 tree grove:

And the 4th tree that was spending the year in its own pot:

 

[Rivka]

Over all Repotting was my only goal this year and it seems to have went well, I’m quite relieved.

Does seem like at some point i should be thinking about these extending branches, as many overlap and crowd neighboring foliage pads.

Which means I also need to consider what look I am aiming for long term. The grove had a very flat horizonal line to a lot of ita growth and that is quite different from what I have seen on most larch bonsai.
Any suggestions on general form, and how to gently get there from here?
I’m going to go back and watch some of the go to YouTube channels again, for the nth time, since now I have more opportunity contextual understanding and application of the info.

 

[Rivka]

Now that i stare at it for a bit, what it is missing is a top, an apex. The flat top stops the eye so roughly.

 

[Rivka]

Hmmmmm, not sure what to do about it, I understand now that all 4 of these trees have been turned horizontally at their apex, which while interesting, is more a sculptural look than a forest look.

here is the largest one:

Wonder if i can even convincingly put a leader back into this?

 

[AnacortesSteve]

Some people have no tact, Maybe go with a larger shallower pot, you could add in a few more "young" larches to round out the edges to make it more Forrest like with these at the front. My Mom had a great forest and it was pretty old, slowly died off, she never repotted since she owned it, I tried to save it but it was too far gone.