If you've ever killed a tree, this might make you fell better

[Brian Van Fleet]

Adair, that ezo was grown from seed or cutting at Brent Walston's place near Sacramento. His climate is very similar to ours, but drier. I keep it in shade during the heat of summer, and expose it to as much cold as I can in the winter. So far, so good.

Dario, I am thinking about making it into a root stand of some type...by that I mean, having someone with talent make it into a root stand of some type...won't be me!

 

[Beng]

I guess you could inspect the roots in a heavy organic soil as it would bind into a firm ball easier. Sorry about the tree, thats never fun. I think i figured it out from investigative work. I got one tropical tree from the same place it was insanely root bound. Repotted it upon arrival, it lost every leaf and appeared dead for several months then bounced back. They have good stock though esp white pines.

As for Jins, I saw a video awhile back where someone working on a deciduous tree put cut paste over the cambium edge of the jin to speed up the rolling and help the tree heal. I tried it on a wisteria this year I broke a large branch off on, not sure how well it will work. I wonder if such a technique would lessen dieback like in the slice of your tree?

 

[october]

That is heart breaking. Also wallet breaking. I think everyone has a price limit they will spend on a tree. Occasionally, we all break that limit. As the years have gone up, my price of what I will spend has gone up. No where near what you paid for this tree. My limit is around $400. If there is an exceptionally good tree at an exceptionally good price, I might break my limit. However, when I do see those trees at the nursery that are so beautiful and they have the $1000 plus price tags, I think about what might happen. Which is what happened to your tree.

Good thing you have so many other beautiful specimen bonsai to look at.

Rob

 

[mcpesq817]

Wow, that really sucks Brian. That was a nice tree, but thanks for sharing both your winners and losers with us.

On spruces in hot climates - I have a couple of Engelmann Spruce that I bought from Nature's Way - I keep them in a shady spot during the hot summer, but otherwise, leave them out in the sun all year long. One I've had through a full growing cycle, and the other I got last fall. Both are going gangbusters with growth this year.

On new trees, I like to get them between fall and early spring. I tend to always repot just to make sure I know what the rootball and soil are like, even on collected trees. Mostly because I worry about issues like the one you had with the JWP, as I've been unpleasantly surprised by what I've come across in the past.

 

[A Random User]

At the base, the scion seemed to show growth around the stock creating a heart-shape, most interesting. How many rings? I counted 47 clearly, +10 or so that were too close together at the center and outside.

EDIT: Osoyoung or another botany expert: what do you make of the darker wood vs. lighter wood in this second photo? What causes this?

Brian, did your tree get hit with a freeze ???
Reason why I ask, is 4 yrs ago we had some very hard freezes here
in FL and I lost alot... I was cutting up bonsai trees to be hauled away
with the rest of the landscaping, and noticed that almost all of them
had the very same look as in your pic... The moisture within the
cells of the tree freezes and when thaws just turns to mush, turning
brown. Side note... I lost a $1,000 Buttonwood tree I was working
on that yr, so I feel your pain.

 

[Smoke]

Thanks Brian....I do feel a little better.....




...ouch.....

 

[fredtruck]

It takes a very clear mind and a lot of humility to open up the death of your tree like this. I admire your self-control, as well as your analysis of what went wrong. The financial aspect of a loss like this is significant, but the emotional impact is often harder to deal with. At least it is for me.

Thanks for posting this.

 

[wireme]

EDIT: Osoyoung or another botany expert: what do you make of the darker wood vs. lighter wood in this second photo? What causes this?[/QUOTE]

Hi Brian, I once read through a book by a Dr. Alex Shigo, it was full of photos and explanations of cross sections of old pruning cuts, compartmentalized rot etc. Sorry, it was a long time ago and I don't remember it all but it was really interesting and I'll bet the answer to your question would be in that book.

Thanks, I feel better too!

 

[PaulH]

I feel your pain....


I've felt it myself in fact. My solution to healing is to delete all photos and cremate the corpse.

 

[Paradox]

Yowch.........

Thats pretty sad.

Ive got a similar thing going on with a pine I bought last year although I paid a pittance compared to what that one cost you. I got it in June last year and I should have repotted but didnt because it was a tad late for repotting. I left it outside all winter because the species is supposed to be hardy and very cold tolerant. I should have brought it into the garage with the others. Its not looking so good this spring, I repotted and now Im waiting to see if it will recover. Lost a juniper in the same "experiment", as I had left that outside to "see if it would survive".

The scots pine next to it also sat outside all winter and is happily extending candles now like nothing happened.

It was an interesting experiment and either way I learned something.

 

[akhater]

The story might be said but you let us all benefit from it tremendously, thanks for that

 

[fore]

Brian, what a sad story. So Thanks for sharing. Good lessons to learn at least At least you have many other very nice trees to help you feel better!

My JBP is also doing terribly. I too wish I had repotted it when I got it. I've lost a couple branches so far, so I'm pretty depressed about it. But I've got it now in good soil, and it's pushing buds, but I won't ever be able to replace the 1" branches. Very sad. But part of my problem also was I missed the Jan. anti fungal spray. Another mistake that I won't make again.

About that section with the dark colored hardwood Brian, could it just be that the whole trunk was water logged and what you're seeing is darkened wood from moisture?

 

[misfit11]

This is a heartbreaking thread, Brian! I feel your pain brother (Well, considering what you paid for the tree maybe not...) as I've recently lost trees that I've had for years. Most recently I lost my bunjin shore pine (originally purchased in 2005 or so) that was really starting to look great. I had planned on showing it at the REBS show this year. Oh well. This is how we learn, right? Right? .... *cry* *cry*

Thanks for sharing. It takes courage to put this kind of thing out there for everyone to see. But it is also a great learning opportunity for all us.

Cory

 

[coh]

Actually, I'm afraid I may have lost one of my most expensive (and potentially best) trees...a Chinese quince that hasn't woken up yet. No evidence of buds swelling. All my other trees have budded out except for a pear that is always the last (mid May last year). The quince was one of the earliest to bud last year (February, though it was abnormally warm), and there was no evidence of trouble last growing season. It's still green under the bark so I'm hoping...

Chris

 

[Adair M]

At the last Intensive at Boon's, he told a story how he rescued a dozen trees from a certain death by repotting them into good soil.

What I've discovered is that if there's any doubt: Should I or should I not repot? The answer is "Repot". Ive lost trees I could probably have saved by taking the "conservative" approach of not repotting.

 

[MinnesotaKirk]

The different colors of wood on the inside are the heartwood and the sapwood.

You can read all about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood#Heartwood_and_sapwood

Basically, as new layers of wood form on the outside of a tree they die the following year and become the light colored sapwood. Even though it is technically dead it is still active in sap transport. After many years, the sapwood hardens and becomes the darker heartwood. Heartwood does not transport water it is biologically dead and serves only as a skeleton to hold up the tree.

 

[JudyB]

I am sorry that this beautiful tree was lost, but glad to see that others can at least gain from the experience.
I have had to bite my tongue a few times, when the given answer to the repot or not question is a "do not repot". I've been repotting my trees at more than the normal amount according to what folks say, some of my trees get a repot each year. And they are thriving. I recently saw a thread where it was said that repotting each year will invariably kill the tree. It was a crab, and my crab gets repotted every spring. Not bare rooted every year, but a big trim for sure at least. And every year it fills the pot, and is super happy.
I agree there are trees that shouldn't be repotted as often, and weak trees are especially problematic to repot, but if it's the soil situation causing the problem, then it seems like a safer course of action.

 

[nip]

Terrible loss. I may be wrong, but I thought that imported trees were bare rooted with entering the country? Seems odd that it would be planted in such bad soil after import, assuming it was indeed bare rooted. Do you know when it was imported?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Judy, I have several trees that need to be repotted each year. My J. Maple and Hawthorn are two examples. Pines and junipers are less often.

nip, it was imported in '04, bare-root I believe, and I purchased it in '10.

 

[rockm]

I used to repot trees every year. Did it for almost ten on the one tht finally gave up.

I've stopped doing it on even some extremely vigorous trees, including a big bald cypress. I have found that frequent repotting can lead to coarse growth, as well as an overall weaking in some species.

Dan Robinson, from what I've heard, never (or almost never) repots trees...