I could not resist

[Adair M]

Yeah the blue line will mean i can keep a bit of height and just improve the top taper and still grow a bit more height back.
On the blue line there are already 3 branches that could take over the leader or maybe it will develop more buds at the cut point.
The yellow line will work aswell but i would not be able to put height back on the tree and would have to build the height at that height. But that could still work.
What time of the year would be best to carry a chop out on in the uk?

Here is a bit I copied from another thread:

"Option 2 is to chop after the leaves have hardened (or sooner) in late spring. If you chop then you do it when the roots are depleted. They spent a great deal of energy to produce all the spring growth. This is not conducive to developing a new leader unless you want a weak one with close internodes, like if you're planning to develop a new apex or branching with closer internodes."

This was written by MarkyScott, in a thread started by Thumbless Primate: "TP Trident".

Another thread to read - in its entirety- is MarkyScott's thread: "Ebihara Maples".

 

[Rob_phillips]

Maybe this is gonna be sth you don't want to hear, but wow... The first picture of your maple didn't attract me. But the first from your latest post did. From this point of view it's completely different tree. Wide base... Doesn't have to be seen as a twin trunk, the second trunk can make a first branch and very naturalistic look.
But it can be only sth in my vision, sth I miss in my collection?

Thanks for your reply its getting all peoples opinions that will help me going forward. Intresting the problems with this being the front in my opinion are.

The red arrows show that the 2nd trunk come straight out at the front side of the trunk then bending off to the right so that may not look right and the top section with the blue arrow shows a previous cut scar that is slow or stoped repairing itself.

On the plus notes i agree on the base of the trunk though i wish my original front had such a good base as this angle.

 

[petegreg]

The red arrows show that the 2nd trunk come straight out at the front side of the trunk then bending off to the right so that may not look right...

On the plus notes i agree on the base of the trunk though i wish my original front had such a good base as this angle.

Yes, I like the way how it grows, looks more like a branch than a trunk.

 

[Rob_phillips]

@petegreg there will always be that option in the future thanks for the post back.
Also i maybe being dumb but what do you mean by "sth"

 

[petegreg]

Sorry for being a lazy typer... sth means something.

 

[Rob_phillips]

Ahhh now i understand the full post cheers

 

[just.wing.it]

Nice trees!
Why does it really need a chop?....the maple.
Looks nice tall.

 

[Rob_phillips]

Nice trees!
Why does it really need a chop?....the maple.
Looks nice tall.

I agree on the height but its the straight sections at the top that just look a bit wierd. I may just give it a year anyway and let the apex help heal the wound at the back by the new apex. I can try and refine the branch structure aswell and see what it looks like at fall and make a decision then and also speak to corin at the nursery on his opinions and advice.

 

[Rob_phillips]

Also ive never seen this tree with leaves. to see its different colours and shape with foliage. I cant wait for that.

 

[just.wing.it]

Also ive never seen this tree with leaves. to see its different colours and shape with foliage. I cant wait for that.

Don't forget to take pics!
Maple spring color is the best!

 

[Rob_phillips]

Don't forget to take pics!
Maple spring color is the best!

Yes definitely i will keep this thread on my two new trees going with pics. As i want to repot the crab apple and adjust its angle and show spring growth.

 

[Adair M]

Nice trees!
Why does it really need a chop?....the maple.
Looks nice tall.

The part of the trunk above the blue line is straight, no taper, and has long internodes. None of which is desirable.

Deciduous trees take far longer to grow and develop than conifers. That is why there are so few good ones here in America. We're too impatient.

Keeping those flaws will only mean it will be a bigger chop when that section of trunk is finally removed. Chop it out this spring to begin the rebuilding of the apex.

 

[just.wing.it]

The part of the trunk above the blue line is straight, no taper, and has long internodes. None of which is desirable.

Deciduous trees take far longer to grow and develop than conifers. That is why there are so few good ones here in America. We're too impatient.

Keeping those flaws will only mean it will be a bigger chop when that section of trunk is finally removed. Chop it out this spring to begin the rebuilding of the apex.

Are you suggesting to grow a new leader?
Or chop and make a new apex at the lower spot?

 

[Rob_phillips]

What about my concern of the open wound from another previous cut wont it heal quicker with thw current apex.

The wound seems to have stoped healing for the time being and the deadwood in the wound has gobe soft and rotten.
If i trunk chop now wont it set this wound healing back?
What would you do with this problem.?

 

[Adair M]

What about my concern of the open wound from another previous cut wont it heal quicker with thw current apex.
View attachment 130817
The wound seems to have stoped healing for the time being and the deadwood in the wound has gobe soft and rotten.
If i trunk chop now wont it set this wound healing back?
What would you do with this problem.?

Yes, I would set about to make a new apex at about that height. An apex on a deciduous tree is a little broom style. But, to get healing on the new chop and the old chop, you need to let a sacrifice branch go.

On the old scar, take a smal bit off all around. And re seal. That triggers the callous formation.

It's not unusual to see deciduous trees that are very highly refined, but have a sacrifice branch running at the apex! Used to: 1) build taper, and 2) heal previous chops.

 

[sorce]

"sth

Lol...I first got it earlier in this thread!

I thought it was some Star Wars shit!

I agree completely....

The first pic made it uninteresting....
Or maybe it was because it was followed so close by that, dare I say, well, let's call it, "challenged" crab.

I would look closely around that new apex, that blue line is beautiful, but how does it relate to that old scar?

IMO...this is a dope ass tree that can be set on a path to excellence, or you can allow it to guide you in the soso direction it has been heading. Like wanting to heal that shit wound with a shit apex! Don't do it!

I think you can tidy up the small trunk a bit too...

Has @MACH5 and @JudyB seen this?
Opinions?

It looks like you have a lot to cut off as far as multiple branches....
Which seems would nearly girdle and kill anything left.
How to deal with this?
Cut them all off?

Anyway...love this tree...hate how the one pic looks to have a green immature trunk that is the fence algae.!

Of the crab....

Personally, I hate it when folks sacrifice a years worth of development to enjoy a few flowers.
Have a look at @Mellow Mullet flowers threads and get on with development!

I'd get straght to ground layering, cuz short that front root, that is a dope ass base!
And a wicked start!

Sorce

 

[Eric Group]

Maple is pretty cool, agree with the plan to chop near the top. I also recommend you read Marky's Ebihara Maple thread... look at the part about thread grafting new roots. I think you could improve this one quickly by doing that... the base already swells nicely in two directions but needs some work on the other two sides...

 

[Eric Group]

Yes, I would set about to make a new apex at about that height. An apex on a deciduous tree is a little broom style. But, to get healing on the new chop and the old chop, you need to let a sacrifice branch go.

On the old scar, take a smal bit off all around. And re seal. That triggers the callous formation.

It's not unusual to see deciduous trees that are very highly refined, but have a sacrifice branch running at the apex! Used to: 1) build taper, and 2) heal previous chops.

this- when recutting it, make sure you cut back to the point where you see green under the bark. Otherwise, it won't heal or it will heal from the living tissue behind the dead stuff leading to a pushed up area of dead bark with callous rolling under it... I use for knives (xacto/ hobby knives) because they are sharp enough to leave the cleaners cut possible which leads to faster healing and less swelling... I also shave the surface of the area zi am trying to heal over with the xacto to make it as smooth as possible... irregular shaped surfaces won't heal as fast or as fast or as smooth as a flat, smooth surface will. On Maoles I have the best success with the clay/ "putty" type of wound sealants but most any should hall prevent rot and dedication where you are healing and they all seem to speed the process to some degree.

*This has been debated on here numerous times- the value of cut paste... my experience of wound coverage in the years I didn't use it vs more recent years when I DID use it... there is no doubt at all that I have seen a HUGENESS increase in the speed the cuts heal WITH PASTE! Like 2-3x or more... there are other contributing factors I am sure- better care, healthier trees, more diligence in regard to cutting the wounds well, better understanding of how to use sacrifice branches to promote rapid healing... All contributed, but the single biggest improvement came from using the paste.

 

[Rob_phillips]

Thanks for taking the time to have a look at this post and posing back i appreciate it.
There has been a lot to soak in and i believe your posts have helped me massively.
I just need to make a plan now and go with it.
@MACH5 and @JudyB did you manage to have a look at the posts so far as i would be interested to hear your opinions too if you have the time.
Thanks.

 

[JudyB]

I have been watching this thread, and am sort of on the fence about it. The reason is that the trunk curves back in so far under the secondary trunk and that bothers me. It's also hard to see what is actually going on, because you are taking pictures from too high above the tree. Take them across the pot. I'd like to see angles where the secondary trunk is on either side of the main trunk but just as it starts to show separation from the main. Where a slice of daylight is between them. Your pictures so far are in front, or beside, but not at the angle that my eye would like to see if there is potential for the front there. I agree with Adair for the chop up top on the main. I'm a big proponent of multi trunks, but something about this one at the viewing angle doesn't do it for me. It looks like the top of the tree does have a definite lean towards one side, if this is true, then that side may want to be the front as it can be problematic for the other side to work unless you regrow enough of it to come toward your chosen front.

Your pic in post 22 has the secondary coming too much right at the viewer. Try turning it to the right until it's just not straight at the front.