Huge ash stump

[Gustaf]

A couple of months ago, we cut down a big ash (fraxinus excelsior) in a friend's garden and since we´re all lazy, the stump is still there. Funny thing is, it´s growing like crazy but my friend really doesn´t want the thing in his garden.

It´s about 15" across and about the same height. Could it some day be a good, but large, bonsai - in other words, should I dig it up come spring and pot it - or is it simply too big? I´ll try to get a picture of it as soon as I can but for now, is that size really workable?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Ash has compound leaves...probably not a very good choice for bonsai. If you're lazy, might want to save that energy for something a bit more amenable to bonsai training.

 

[Gustaf]

Ash has compound leaves...probably not a very good choice for bonsai. If you're lazy, might want to save that energy for something a bit more amenable to bonsai training.

The laziness is more aimed at digging up a stump to get rid of it but I haven´t thought of it as potential bonsai material until today.

But it would be possible to create something bonsai-like with this thing if it grows sort of as it should?

 

[JudyB]

If you do make the effort, just know that this is a bad time of year to collect anything. Ash is pretty tough, so you might get away with it...
And then you'll know just how hard it is to dig up a big stump like this, and if it lives, you'll have learned good aftercare methods. There are all kinds of learning opportunities here, it just depends on how hard you want to work to get those lessons.

There are some ash bonsai out there, google ash bonsai images, or search on Walter Pall's site for more. I think you'd have to go pretty big to have a believable one, because of the compound leaf issue.

 

[Gustaf]

If you do make the effort, just know that this is a bad time of year to collect anything. Ash is pretty tough, so you might get away with it...
And then you'll know just how hard it is to dig up a big stump like this, and if it lives, you'll have learned good aftercare methods. There are all kinds of learning opportunities here, it just depends on how hard you want to work to get those lessons.

There are some ash bonsai out there, google ash bonsai images, or search on Walter Pall's site for more. I think you'd have to go pretty big to have a believable one, because of the compound leaf issue.

Yes, I think I´ll convince him to let it sit over the winter for me and then I´ll dig it up in, say, April?

So I´ll pot it with a lesson in mind and with a little luck and (a lot of) hard work it might turn into a nice bonsai in a bunch of years. I´ll get a picture of it later today and maybe you guys can help me see if there is any potential at all in it.

 

[Dario]

Here in Australia we use Desert Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) a lot for bonsai.
We also make bonsai out of stumps the same size as yours and bigger! Sure this species has compound leaves and a lot say not worth the bother, but they are 100% wrong!
You can even create mame bonsai from this species and the leaves reduce very well (without having to cut back to individual leaflets...ie you can keep the entire compound leaf!) with the correct techniques.
An amazing species for bonsai...tough as nails! awesome fissured bark that ages quickly, heals big cuts and trunk chops very fast etc, etc
Many people that say they are no good for bonsai either haven't actually tried them, or don't know how to properly work the species.
I am not having ago at anyone saying they are not good for bonsai...just trying to expell this unfounded myth!
Collect it for sure as they are great bonsai subjects and should be used a whole lot more!
Cheers.

 

[milehigh_7]

Well let's get some pics of them an maybe a progression so we can all learn some new techniques!

 

[Poink88]

Here in Australia we use Desert Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) a lot for bonsai.
We also make bonsai out of stumps the same size as yours and bigger! Sure this species has compound leaves and a lot say not worth the bother, but they are 100% wrong!
You can even create mame bonsai from this species and the leaves reduce very well (without having to cut back to individual leaflets...ie you can keep the entire compound leaf!) with the correct techniques.
An amazing species for bonsai...tough as nails! awesome fissured bark that ages quickly, heals big cuts and trunk chops very fast etc, etc
Many people that say they are no good for bonsai either haven't actually tried them, or don't know how to properly work the species.
I am not having ago at anyone saying they are not good for bonsai...just trying to expell this unfounded myth!
Collect it for sure as they are great bonsai subjects and should be used a whole lot more!
Cheers.

From one Dario to another WELCOME!!!

That is a bold initial post. Hope you can show us some samples and share the technique and not just a TROLL geared to smear the Dario name (I can do that well by myself). LOL (sorry, I have some people tried something similar w/ a twist somewhere ) I do wish you are legit though and hope you understand. Cheers!

 

[Stan Kengai]

I found this one, which appears to be somewhere in eastern Europe. Looks like the leaves do reduce rather nicely, although this one's structure leaves something to be desired. And searching images on Bing, it appears this is a fairly common genus used for bonsai in other parts of the world.

 

[Dario]

Hello all and sorry for the delayed reply.
Dario last time I checked, I wasn't a troll?
Grant Bowie is a member of Bonsainut and he is been very generous in sharing his techniques with ash and encouraging others in Australia to give them a go as bonsai.
We mainly use Desert Ash (Fraxinus angustifolia) in Australia as it is so readily available.
Grant is the interim curator of the National Bonsai and Penjing Collection of Australia
and a link to a thread on Ausbonsai explaining how he acheives great results with this species can be found here...
http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8119&hilit=+Ash

This thread shows an example of the above techniques used by Grant Bowie (it is another Ausbonsai thread and this one has pictures that will require you to become a member of the frorum if you wish to view them...a simple and quick process to become a member)...
http://www.ausbonsai.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=4827&hilit=fraxinus

There is also guy from France that loves Fraxinus and has been using them for bonsai for a long time. He is a member of IBC (pascal37) and he is able to achieve small sized Fraxinus bonsai (under 15cm)through techniques he has devised.
He is able to reduce the leaf size tremendously without cutting back to the first set of leaflets...in other words he keeps the entire pinnate leaf structure in tact.
Here is one of his smaller Fraxinus bonsai...
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t2890-fraxinus-shohin?highlight=fraxinus

Dario I know you are an IBC member and if you type Fraxinus into the search engine 9 threads come up...they are short threads though, and don't explain the "how to" regarding techniques for Fraxinus bonsai...but I thought I would include them anyway.

This thread also has a link to a French forum that pascal37 is a member of (it contains a few pictures)...
http://www.parlonsbonsai.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43193

This thread explains in detail Pascal37's methods for leaf reduction and ramification of Fraxinus. It is however in French (but there are pictures and diagrams though).
In France they tend to use Fraxinus excelsior...
http://www.parlonsbonsai.com/Formation-et-ramification-du-frene.html

I think that what I have included in this post contains some solid techniques and is a good "starting point" for dealing with Fraxinus and I hope that it helps anyone interested in this species.
The links I supplied were just ones that came to mind at the time...there is more information on the internet and also some great examples of this species as bonsai, you just need to search it out.
Cheers, Dario.
PS Dario I have only met 4 other Dario's in Australia and I have spoken to a couple from Italian bonsai forums too...good to know there are more of us out there ha ha.

 

[daygan]

Interesting thoughts about Ash. I recently discovered that one of the most common trees that I see in Tianjin, China is actually (according to online sources in Chinese) Velvet Ash, and based on other sources that I've seen claiming that Ash are "tough as nails", I'm growing increasingly interested in trying one myself. Thanks for the links, Dario.

 

[Dario]

Hi Daygan.
They sure are a tough, fast growing trees.
I haven't heard of Velvet Ash before...sounds interesting!
Give it a go for sure!
Just be sure to confirm that it is a member of the Fraxinus genus before treating as per links I submitted.
Cheers, Dario.

 

[daygan]

Wikipedia: Velvet Ash

Also known as Arizona Ash and Modesto Ash. Evidently native to North America. Definitely Fraxinus.

 

[daygan]

... although other searches also place Fraxinus pennsylvanica in Tianjin, so I'm uncertain at this point as to which of these two I most commonly see..

 

[frozenoak]

This is very interesting. I had a couple Ash volunteer in the garden this year and I saved them. The compound leaves are pretty large so I figured they would be useless for bonsai but if, through proper technique, the foliage can be brought into proportion with a smaller than wild tree then I may go for it. The Velvet Ash is apparently native to my area so this could very well be the tree I have.

 

[Poink88]

PS Dario I have only met 4 other Dario's in Australia and I have spoken to a couple from Italian bonsai forums too...good to know there are more of us out there ha ha.

In my native country (Philippines)...I've never met another Dario but here in TX and Mexico, seems like there are several. I almost got a massage so just I can meet the first Dario I've seen on the newspaper classified ads! LOL

Nice meeting you mate!