Will the "huge trunk, no nebari" trend be the future of bonsai?

[rockm]

Yes, you are right.
But all of them are old trees, and I guess any good sized tree, with time and talented hands, can/will be an impressive bonsai.
My concern is with young people collecting stumps and naming them bonsai, just because they are thick and alive, in a box.

Old trees used to be younger trees. What is a stump now won't be with the passage of time. That's the point in collecting them. Time and work changes them, or can change them, substantially. I was one of those "get a stump" and put it in a pot idiots a long time ago. With time and work the stump is no longer a stump. Bonsai are created this way, have been for some time.

Stump and not a stump:

 

[Cajunrider]

But I think @Clicio was objecting not the use of large trunks from collected trees or trees grown in the ground, but rather the fact that an excessive focus on large trunks is obscuring the appreciation of other forms of bonsai. An "acceptable" bonsai does not have to have a large trunk, nor it is the only way to go. It is really hard to do a "mother-son" composition or any group planting with very large trees, for example. I think part of the trend has to do with the trees shown in Mirai, for example. They tend to be big and quite spectacular. They make for good, impactful visuals. But there is a lot of variety in bonsai. Large trunks are only one subset, and not the only way to produce "acceptable" bonsai.

From my desire to share my bounty with others, I gained some experience as a dealer. Lots of bonsai buyers want to develop the subtlety and the artistry part to their taste, so they tend to focus on the trunks and the bases as the key to spend their money. Dealers like Mirai will have to respond to that to make a living. I doubt that the bonsai practitioners only produce large trunk bonsai. However, the dealers’ inventory will reflect customer demands.

PS: I had some BCs that really had the graceful shapes for more feminine artistic form. So far all my buyers say chop the trees short to save shipping. I don’t take that to mean the buyers just want masculine big trunk trees. I take it as they are willing to develop that part themselves.

 

[JudyB]

Well, um, same is true for feminine trees. Women, particularly older women, tend to be drawn to delicate, fussy, or cutesy thin trunked trees. I've seem some skinny trunked trees that are pretty ugly...just sayin...

There is a difference between a well made graceful feminine tree (which may have a thinner trunk) and a starter type POS. The same is true of the big honkers. Some are well made and some are crap. It's just easier to hide crap behind a big frame. I could call you out on the old woman comment, but I know you're a cranky old guy so that's ok...

 

[rockm]

"I think the trend towards large and very masculine trees is very much the main focus these days."

It has been the focus for about the last three decades in the west. It's always been a theme in Japan. Dan Robinson wasn't using a chain saw to design shohin trees 30 years ago.

HISTORICAL TREE SPOTLIGHT: The Ponderosa Pine — National Bonsai Foundation

While visiting the North American collection, you might notice one bonsai that stands out from the rest – but hardly like a sore thumb. Museum curator Michael James sat down with us to talk about the pine’s history and defining features. Towering sometimes two whole feet taller than its neighborin

www.bonsai-nbf.org

The Latest — The Artisans Cup

www.theartisanscup.com

 

[jradics]

I don't have much time left either but some of the big trunks just fell into my lap
I took that back. I meant some of the big trunks just ran into my Root Slayer shovel.

I have been digging holes for 50 years. A rootslayer shovel was given to me as a gift last year. Far and away the best shovel I have ever owned. Can't say enough good things about this tool

 

[Gabler]

I have been digging holes for 50 years. A rootslayer shovel was given to me as a gift last year. Far and away the best shovel I have ever owned. Can't say enough good things about this tool

I have a bad habit of breaking shovels. How durable would you say it is?

 

[Cajunrider]

I have a bad habit of breaking shovels. How durable would you say it is?

Pretty good without being overly heavy.
I’ve dug over 150 trees and popping 9-10” trunks out of the swamp. Still like new.

 

[trigo]

@Clicio contemplate these highly refined jaboticabas



The reason i collected them is that maybe in 10 to 15 years i can have something nice, they were free of charge too, that helps . But i do agree, they are not bonsai YET.
But i think it's worth to collect stumps like these, 30 years growing in the ground is something that can't be compared with growing in pots. Over the next years i will try to correct the nebari and develop primary branches.

For those wondering, Jaboticabas can heal those big wounds, should take probably 5 to 6 years after the first branches thicken up and start to move sap up the trunk.

 

[Clicio]

@Clicio contemplate these highly refined jaboticabas

View attachment 488656View attachment 488657

The reason i collected them is that maybe in 10 to 15 years i can have something nice, they were free of charge too, that helps . But i do agree, they are not bonsai YET.
But i think it's worth to collect stumps like these, 30 years growing in the ground is something that can't be compared with growing in pots. Over the next years i will try to correct the nebari and develop primary branches.

For those wondering, Jaboticabas can heal those big wounds, should take probably 5 to 6 years after the first branches thicken up and start to move sap up the trunk.

Very nice Jabus!
But...
Most probably I wouldn't have that much time.

 

[jandslegate]

The "big trunk" thing has always been the case for the most part. The trend in the last decade or so is actually going the other direction. I've noticed that there are A LOT more excellent quality shohin and medium sized bonsai around these days. Yes, there are huge trees with no taper or nebari, but those are generally owned and operated by people who are relatively new to bonsai--I used to be one of those. All my "Big Trunk,No branching" trees have developed both over a couple of decades.

The appeal of large trees is that they are immediately impressive --particularly to people who don't know bonsai. Big bonsai can absorb more abuse and less than adequate care and still be presentable. The smaller the tree, the more expertise needed to keep it looking good. People move on from large trees, particularly, as I'm finding out, as they get older and can no longer move or lift them without threat of injury.

Another fun thing I've discovered is that some big trees seem to be much more vulnerable. I have one really tall juniper that took a fair amount of damage to it's finer branching from transportation and high winds. It's one of my heavier trees but it's also taller and even though it was never the case in the past all it took was one gust and I came home to it on the grass. They're also awkward to move around, lol.

 

[Gabler]

Another fun thing I've discovered is that some big trees seem to be much more vulnerable. I have one really tall juniper that took a fair amount of damage to it's finer branching from transportation and high winds. It's one of my heavier trees but it's also taller and even though it was never the case in the past all it took was one gust and I came home to it on the grass. They're also awkward to move around, lol.

I think that has more to do with height than mass.

 

[rockm]

Another fun thing I've discovered is that some big trees seem to be much more vulnerable. I have one really tall juniper that took a fair amount of damage to it's finer branching from transportation and high winds. It's one of my heavier trees but it's also taller and even though it was never the case in the past all it took was one gust and I came home to it on the grass. They're also awkward to move around, lol.

If the wind can blow it over, it's not really a big tree . My larger trees didn't get knocked over by a hurricane (68 mph winds).If you're not cursing and stumbling when you're carrying the tree, again, it's not really a big tree

 

[Clicio]

If the wind can blow it over, it's not really a big tree . My larger trees didn't get knocked over by a hurricane (68 mph winds).If you're not cursing and stumbling when you're carrying the tree, again, it's not really a big tree

I curse and moan and stumble carrying almost any tree nowadays...

 

[Bonsai Turtle]

I have been digging holes for 50 years. A rootslayer shovel was given to me as a gift last year. Far and away the best shovel I have ever owned. Can't say enough good things about this tool

Lowes sells a clone of the root-slayer for about 50% of the cost IIRC.

 

[Cajunrider]

Lowes sells a clone of the root-slayer for about 50% of the cost IIRC.

What I have is the Root Slayer Drain Spade XL. I will not accept any other model or substitute. The 18" long narrow but thick blade wins me over. This thing is like a sharp-shooter shovel on steroid. The blade allows me to dig narrower and deeper trench. Plus the longer blade allow me to angle from 12" out and still cut the taproot. I have one and am buying one to give to a friend.

 

[Bonsai Turtle]

What I have is the Root Slayer Drain Spade XL. I will not accept any other model or substitute. The 18" long narrow but thick blade wins me over. This thing is like a sharp-shooter shovel on steroid. The blade allows me to dig narrower and deeper trench. Plus the longer blade allow me to angle from 12" out and still cut the taproot. I have one and am buying one to give to a friend.

IIRC that one is about $70-80....by the looks of it, this is the same exact thing for $45 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Radius-Garden-Kobalt-Root-Slayer-Dig-Long-Handle-Shovel/5005331949

 

[Cajunrider]

IIRC that one is about $70-80....by the looks of it, this is the same exact thing for $45 https://www.lowes.com/pd/Radius-Garden-Kobalt-Root-Slayer-Dig-Long-Handle-Shovel/5005331949

NO! it is not. The blade is wide and short. This one is sold at Home Depot for $59. Note that the blade is narrower and much longer.

Radius Garden 41 in. Fiberglass Handle 58 in. Root Slayer Carbon Steel XL Drain Spade Shovel 22911-21 - The Home Depot

Effortlessly dig various surfaces in your garden with the help of this extra ordinary Radius Garden Fiberglass Handle Root Slayer Carbon Steel XL Drain Spade Shovel.

www.homedepot.com

 

[Bonsai Turtle]

NO! it is not. The blade is wide and short. This one is sold at Home Depot for $59. Note that the blade is narrower and much longer.

Radius Garden 41 in. Fiberglass Handle 58 in. Root Slayer Carbon Steel XL Drain Spade Shovel 22911-21 - The Home Depot

Effortlessly dig various surfaces in your garden with the help of this extra ordinary Radius Garden Fiberglass Handle Root Slayer Carbon Steel XL Drain Spade Shovel.

www.homedepot.com

View attachment 488690

good to know, I had not seen that one at HD when I looked a few months ago... will keep it in mind if the other one fails on me.

 

[BobbyLane]

I have the root slayer too, bought on amazon a while back.

 

[dbonsaiw]

If this is the new trend, my trees are ready for Kokufu. Joking aside, bonsai has a very high cost to entry. Newbies just don't know that at the beginning. Which is probably a blessing, because I would not have continued with this craziness had I known all that was involved at the beginning. We tend to learn a little about bonsai and then jump in head first, not really understanding all the time, effort and skill that will need to go into this. We are in fact even resistant to tried and true advice from experts because we want to develop our bonsai faster, cheaper and without bonsai soil ("I don't need no stinkin' rules"). Then we make mistakes and have a choice of either getting with the real bonsai program or trying a different hobby.

Well, I guess there is also a middle ground - setting out to create “mediocre” bonsai. I may end up with mediocre bonsai but that wasn’t my initial goal. If one doesn’t want to take the many years to develop a tree and also doesn’t want to drop the serious coin needed to buy a more finished tree, they could opt to do bonsai a different way - nebari is basically however it grew naturally, trunk has less than ideal taper and movement etc. And the less they know, the more they think their tree is a Walter Pall creation. Ignorance is bliss and presumably they are having a good time (and maybe even selling these trees for ridiculous prices online).

There can be no good bonsai without good nebari. Frankly, in the hierarchy of bonsai components (although all are important) I would place the trunk after nebari and branch ramification, but nebari is king.