How many REAL bonsai discussions/questions have you posted on lately?

[Poink88]

I see, so rather let a thread lie with few responses, you would rather that it garner lots of responses with potentially a lot of crap information that the OP needs to sort through? Interesting logic

Only because you see my input as crap. It is okay!

 

[Vance Wood]

This might be a bit controversial, but "posting on everything" may not be best. Whether I respond to a post depends on what the original post is asking about and how confident I am in my experience for offering advice. It's one thing to respond to a post asking opinions on styling, it's quite another when someone is looking for advice on a very particular situation or relating to a particular species that I may or may not have experience working with.

For example, a recent post went up asking what to do with the JBP that his dog decided to root prune. When he asked whether to tent, I was somewhat surprised to see that you jumped in and said to tent when you have admittedly been doing bonsai for about a year. No offense intended, but a year in bonsai does not expose you to enough experience to offer advice on what to do in an emergency situation like that. Pines are different beasts, and I don't recall you working with them. I even hesitated, and I've been working with JBPs for four years now.

This kind of thing has always been an issue in my opinion. That's why sometimes I have a tendency to challenge people who come along boasting or expounding all kinds of advanced information without offering the courtesy of submitting some sort of record of their endeavors with photo documentation.

I am reminded of Gregor Mendal, the father of genetics. He discovered the laws of genetics by growing different varieties of peas and documented the diffferent permutations of certain traits. It has been discovered that he was a fraud and never did any of his experiments----he guessed and was right.

 

[davetree]

Read a bit more on Mendel, many think he has been unfairly criticized.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, but the only purpose it seems to serve is to stir the pot and cause another war, adding to the "Unreal bonsai discussions" that already exist...

 

[mcpesq817]

Only because you see my input as crap. It is okay!

No need to be overly sensitive I thought the truth was encouraged?

The point is that giving bad or other misinformation, good intentions or not, is probably worse for people than getting no information at all.

 

[rockm]

"A tutorial was posted about repotting and got no response while a bickering thread gets 200+?"

Perhaps a better gauge of some informational threads isn't responses, it is the number of "Views." That is a much more telling measure of interest in a thread. There are only a few of us loudmouths here that post a lot.

A FWIW, for all you newbies who may not know, the "masterpiece" under our names really has nothing to do with experise, necessarily. That tag is obtained when you post a certain number of comments. It is more of a gauge of participation.

 

[Vance Wood]

Maybe I'm missing the point of this thread, but the only purpose it seems to serve is to stir the pot and cause another war, adding to the "Unreal bonsai discussions" that already exist...

Got anything better to do at the moment?

 

[ghues]

Got anything better to do at the moment?

Hey Vance,..... Yep I do like.....so no time for flame wars........lots of soil making and repotting.
Cheers G.

 

[october]

Originally Posted by Poink88
"That is the beauty of forums...you can talk and people can jump and expose your BS. Unlike articles that no one can say anything or correct."


I would like to address this in a way in which we do critiques in the workshops. That being saying what we like and what could use improvement.

Dario, you have a lot of enthusiasm, which is good. You have entered the world of bonsai like a charging bull. However, this can have a good or bad result..

So like we critique a tree is how I will phrase my reply here. On the good side. I will compliment you on having a good eye for material. The material you have collected is many years ahead of the 1 year of experience you have. I also saw your thread on the frankentree with the bolt through it. I thought it was a good project and you may have potentially created a future nice tree from major problematic material. Basically, I think, although new, you have a good eye for bonsai. Definitely more advanced than one year. I think you can really accomplish great things in this art.

Now, here is the other side. I have noticed that no matter what question is posted, you answer it. Usually the first person to answer it. The thing is, you answer questions about every bonsai subject. No one, not even people with years of experience, can answer every question. Also, you usually follow it up with that you are a newbie. Basically that is like a caveat. So if something goes wrong, it's like, well, I said I was a noob.

In your response to Chris regarding when do you think you will be ready to give advice... Although time frames differ. The truth is the same. The answer is when you have worked on a particular species and delt with particular problems, numerous times and have had favorable results..and/or...when you have worked one on one with a very seaoned artist or master and seen his results and then the knowledge is passed on to you.

Anyway, I think you have great potential to go very far in bonsai. However, you can't answer everything, no one really can. So slow down and enjoy the bonsai journey, you are going so fast that you are missing the many beauties that come with learning bonsai in the proper stages. Also as rockm pointed out about the posts,. The terms underneath the user names just refer to qauntity of posts. I think you have more posts in the last 6 months than people that have been here for 4-5 years..lol.

Rob

 

[Poink88]

No need to be overly sensitive I thought the truth was encouraged?

The point is that giving bad or other misinformation, good intentions or not, is probably worse for people than getting no information at all.

LOL I am not overly sensitive...just notices that you like ALL posts that takes a (somewhat) shot at me. Don't believe me? Review them.

I assure you, TRUTH is encouraged.

I maintain that bad and mis-information depends on who is looking at it. You think my opinions are crap and BS...that is okay...I just want to tell you that is not what I think.

 

[Poink88]

Originally Posted by Poink88
"That is the beauty of forums...you can talk and people can jump and expose your BS. Unlike articles that no one can say anything or correct."


I would like to address this in a way in which we do critiques in the workshops. That being saying what we like and what could use improvement.

Dario, you have a lot of enthusiasm, which is good. You have entered the world of bonsai like a charging bull. However, this can have a good or bad result..

So like we critique a tree is how I will phrase my reply here. On the good side. I will compliment you on having a good eye for material. The material you have collected is many years ahead of the 1 years exeprince you have. I also saw your thread on the frankentree with the bolt through it. I thought it was a good project and you may have potentially created a future nice tree from major problematic material. Basically, I think, although new, you have a good eye for bonsai. Definitely more advanced than one year. I think you can really accomplish great things in this art.

Now, here is the other side. I have noticed that no matter what question is posted, you answer it. Usually the first person to answer it. The thing is, you answer questions about every bonsai subject. No one, not even people with years of experience, can answer every question. Also, you usually follow it up with that you are a newbie. Basically that is like a caveat. So if something goes wrong, it's like well, I said I was a noob.

In your response to Chris regarding when do you think you will be ready to give advice... Although time frames differ. The truth is the same. The answer is when you have worked on a particular species and delt with particular problems, numerous times and have had favorable results..and/or...when you have worked one on one with a very seaoned artist or master and seen his results and then the knowledge is passed on to you.

Anyway, I think you have great potential to go very far in bonsai. However, you can't answer everything, no one really can. So slow down and enjoy the bonsai journey, you are going so fast that you are missing the many beauties that come with learning bonsai in the proper stages. Also as rockm pointed out about the posts,. The terms underneath the user names just refer to qauntity of posts. I think you have more posts in the last 6 months than people that have been here for 4-5 years..lol.

Rob

Rob,

Thanks. I really appreciate your post and input. I will try to hold back...chatty is chatty though so no promises.

I posted something about that "Masterpiece" actually...way back. I wish we can put whatever we want there instead. Or maybe a way to disable it at least.

 

[mcpesq817]

LOL I am not overly sensitive...just notices that you like ALL posts that takes a (somewhat) shot at me. Don't believe me? Review them.

I assure you, TRUTH is encouraged.

I maintain that bad and mis-information depends on who is looking at it. You think my opinions are crap and BS...that is okay...I just want to tell you that is not what I think.

I'm not taking shots at you. I just have some of the same concerns that Rob posted above with your posts at times. I think it's great that you have the enthusiasm that you do. But, coming off like you are a font of knowledge and experience on every post when you have only one year of experience is a bit misleading to others here that may be looking for good advice or information. There are plenty of threads that I don't feel equipped to post on because I don't have enough experience on the matter, or haven't worked with the species.

For example, you make comments about chopping American Hornbeam to Daytona who has been practicing bonsai and digging those trees up for many years, yet you're basing your experience on completely different species. You also advised on tenting a guy's stressed JBP. The majority of other posters disagree with you, yet you still maintain that it's not bad or mis-information - and again in the same vein, you say you're a newbie, etc.

So, when you're called out on giving bad advice, it's not to attack you - it's to make sure that the OP gets the best information possible. Isn't that what these boards should be about? Exchanging the best information possible? Yet your ego makes you refuse to acknowledge that you may be wrong.

 

[lordy]

Since you want everyone to offer input on this thread, here goes, but I am not as good at being gentle as some others. And according to your signature, Dario, you can take it. So let's test that.
Most of the posts echo what I feel. To post just to say something is a post that I really cannot learn from. I dont need to hear that caveat when you are simply offering an opinion. I think you could actually get a lot more LEARNING done in less time if you were not typing about something you are not actually qualified to comment on, and researched something you were not positive about. For me to have to sift through so much essentially unimportant verbiage is just tiring and unnecessary. Something else that is confusing for newbs is to hear about what you get away with, but is generally not accepted as usual and prudent.
Launching a disagreement each time these occur would involve a huge amount of essentially unproductive time, and for what? That's why I just keep quiet. And it appears I am not alone. So, keep up the enthusiasm but try to temper it a bit when giving advice. Just because what you are seeing as success has not killed your trees yet does not mean it works long term. Plenty of trees will last several years under extremely adverse conditions. Your biggest task will be learning patience to prove what you espouse.

 

[Beng]

I'll dive into the discussion. I've been doing bonsai for a long time and have quite a bit of exp growing black pines. That said I don't have a dog and have never really had any severe damage done to any of my established JBP.... Apart from squirrels digging into the roots, and insect damage. Plus I lived in California for many years and when there I was not really into pines. Since its hard to tell what actually happened to his tree I decided not to post on that particular forum as I didn't want to lead him astray and it sounded like he's done what he can. I've never once tented a JBP, I've tented tropicals and a few other species but never a pine. No exp on that front although i was thinking of tenting one this year. So I kept my mouth shut. I post when I know an answer with 100% certainty and I keep my mouth shut when giving advice if my percent of certainty drops below 90% or so. Ill always post on a forum that I find interesting though as long as its not advice regarding the life and death of a tree.

On another note on average i enjoy Dario's posts. (Didn't read the black pine or hornbeam ones he wrote.). I find in general his enthusiasm and attitude is positive a big benefit to the forums! He posts he reads but he never really gets critical, i like that even If I may not always agree 100%.

 

[jkd2572]

Dario, because repotting posts are boring unless a very experienced member is showing some crazy root work.

 

[Poink88]

Lordy & Beng.

I appreciate the input. I'll try to slow down but someone better fill the gap else I may get bored!!! You don't want me bored (in the tune of Bruce Banner...) LOL

 

[Poink88]

Dario, because repotting posts are boring unless a very experienced member is showing some crazy root work.

Yeah...I figured.

 

[Poink88]

For example, you make comments about chopping American Hornbeam to Daytona who has been practicing bonsai and digging those trees up for many years, yet you're basing your experience on completely different species.

...Yet your ego makes you refuse to acknowledge that you may be wrong.

Did you really read that thread with an open mind? Did he mention he was doing it for that long before? What did I say after rockm and he told me their experience?

If I know (or if you can prove) I am wrong I will beg you for forgiveness and apologize but until then, I believe in what I believe. FYI, it is not ego...what my dad thought me is principle. For him if it is rightfully his, a penny is worth fighting for...even if it will cost him $100 doing so. And I am proud to learn that lesson.

Thank you.

 

[Beng]

Where is this hornbeam thread, searched for it but i'm not finding it?

 

[mcpesq817]

Did you really read that thread with an open mind? Did he mention he was doing it for that long before? What did I say after rockm and he told me their experience?

If I know (or if you can prove) I am wrong I will beg you for forgiveness and apologize but until then, I believe in what I believe. FYI, it is not ego...what my dad thought me is principle. For him if it is rightfully his, a penny is worth fighting for...even if it will cost him $100 doing so. And I am proud to learn that lesson.

Thank you.

I think this thread makes the point that many of us here have been trying to relay to you:

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?10107-I-started-Collecting-my-2013-Hornbeam-wow