Help me rescue this tennis court cedar

[pandacular]

My neighborhood tennis courts are being resurfaced next week, and I had taken note of a cedar sapling that had sprouted and was thriving in one of the corners of the tennis court. After playing this morning, I decided to dig it up and try to save it (only because the courts are about to resurfaced.)

I got it out with quite a long length of the tap root. There's not much in the way of finer roots, but I'm hoping it can survive in spite of that.

My main questions are what sort of soil can I use to maximize the odds of success? I've heard the method is something fast draining (like pumice) and keeping it in the shade with decent humidity is the key. Curious if I should put it in a bag, as I've seen done for softwood cuttings and some yamadori.

I don't have pumice on hand, but I do have it in a mix of perlite, diatomaceous earth, and the original, gravelly, soil it was growing in.

 

[pandacular]

just for fun, the parent as seen from the child.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

With all due respect, I think you killed it.
Cedars don't like rootwork at all, and there aren't a lot of roots left on it. So in a couple weeks, it'll go pale and the needles will fall off when you touch them.
I've grown a bunch of these from seed and when birds pushed my pots from the bench, nothing really bad happened; some soil shifted but that was it. All of them died. And those were 2 year old seedlings with some healthy vigor.

Since you've already potted it up, I'd just water it and hope for the best. It would be a waste of energy to try and repot it again.

 

[Tieball]

Just take care of the tree as you normally would. Leave it alone for now. No repotting or other root disruption. What happens after this is unknown. You will know that you tried though.

 

[Rivian]

Reduce foliage and place in part shade. Keep the soil damp but not soggy. Increase humidity if you can

 

[pandacular]

I reduced the foliage, and put it in a makeshift humidity chamber (a packing bag with the seal mostly closed) and have stored it in a shady spot. I will mist as needed and keep an eye on it.

With all due respect, I think you killed it.
Cedars don't like rootwork at all, and there aren't a lot of roots left on it. So in a couple weeks, it'll go pale and the needles will fall off when you touch them.

Last night I did a good bit of reading on cedars and noticed similar discussions. I have adjust my (already low) expectations accordingly. At least the chances of this tree surviving in my hands are higher than if I had left it to be dug out of the courts.

 

[Shibui]

We had a few experienced growers down here who promoted transplant of cedrus in mid summer as their experience was that cedrus recovered better at that time of year. One of those growers went as far as to say that the hottest day of the year was the best for cedrus transplant.
Bare root is no problem in my experience, especially as they do not usually have many fine roots so keeping local soil intact is almost impossible.
Successful transplant is less about keeping local soil and much more about conditions after. Soil mix only needs to be good enough to retain moisture around roots. New soil type should be more about what you can manage to look after. Even less important when initial pots are deeper.
Extra humidity is probably a good idea after mid summer transplant as the tree without many roots is essentially a large cutting now.
Be prepared for a slow recovery. I find cedrus slow to grow new roots but they can and do.

Good luck.

 

[pandacular]

Thanks for the tips and insights, Shibui. I have no plans for this tree besides keeping it alive. I've been trying to expose myself to as many different parts of the horticultural processes involved in bonsai with material I have no attachment to, and all I want out of this tree is to learn.

 

[MaciekA]

I bare rooted 6 cedrus atlantica seedlings out of the ground after flush/hardening last year, just like you, and had good results. One seedling didn't make it (almost immediately, due to rough handling of that one) but the other 5 survived just fine, lost very little foliage, and went on to be quite vigorous for the rest of 2022. I actually ended up putting them on bottom heat (100% outdoors 100% of the entire winter (2022-2023), including the exceptionally cold and windy freeze we had early 2023) and they filled their recovery container (pumice/lava/akadama) with roots such that the container is now stiff with roots. They're growing and extending very strongly this year, all jammed into a single container. I used a tall skinny perforated pot and didn't overpot them or try to go shallow early.

The main difference between your collection and my collection might be in the details and IMO this may swing success one way or another. When I go collecting conifer seedlings in early summer (typically pine) I typically work like every last root hair matters, have a spray bottle and baggie ready, and do not pause for pictures in the sun. I don't state these points to be critical, rather to say that a cedrus seedling can clearly survive a summer barerooting, but if you're counting root endings, it's possible every detail counts.

When I was recovering my seedlings I had them in an upright mini greenhouse that got hot and humid and was in an otherwise very sunny spot, but would have an approx noon to 1PM light cutoff. After that the mini greenhouse was still surrounded by a bright oven-hot environment, but itself not in direct light. The moment the intense part of summer heat ended they were out of that greenhouse. I put them on bottom heat later, during winter.

 

[pandacular]

A spray bottle while collecting it would've been a really good idea! I think the circumstances of the collection, notably that it was growing on the crumbling edge of a concrete tennis court, might make it impossible to work in the first place. Bottom heat is part of my plan if this is at all alive by winter. Thanks for your insight!

 

[pandacular]

This tree appears to be doing great. I've kept the bag moist and shaded. All the foliage looks good, and when I touch it (which obviously I shouldn't do...) it feels strong.

I added a little wire loop to hold the bag up, as it kept sulking onto the tree.

 

[LooselyWired]

Tennis court trees should be used to seeing love

 

[pandacular]

a number of the leaves have begun to yellow. I understand that yellowing can be caused by too much water, but I know very little about the habits of cedar. Any tips?

 

[RoadManDenDron]

To me the bands would suggest fungal issue, likely too much humidity

its a fine line to balance between not drying out and being too moist, like a big cutting

Sadly it also looks pretty far gone, a big decline in a week

 

[Shibui]

Yellowing a few weeks after collection is not a great sign. Cedars are not the easiest to transplant and my guess is that this one has decided not to play with you. Chances are there are no new roots below. Sometimes that happens despite all the best care and attention. Unfortunately it just takes conifers a while to show the signs.

 

[pandacular]

To me the bands would suggest fungal issue, likely too much humidity

its a fine line to balance between not drying out and being too moist, like a big cutting

Good to know on the fungus threat. Should I hit it with some fungicide? I took it out of it's bag today to observe and let it air out.

Chances are there are no new roots below.

I think this is very likely. The tree is rather loose in it's pot. Next time, i would secure it to the pot to hold it steady laterally for something with this little in the way of the roots.

I'm not giving up yet, but I have already achieved my goals with this tree: learning more!

 

[pandacular]

I took the tree out of the "greenhouse" and found it was definitely too much moisture. This tree has never been well established in the pot, so I added some wire to hold it laterally. The difference in stability is massive, and I really wish I had done this on day 1! Additionally, I treated it with a bit of fungicide, just in case.


I also noticed that despite the weakness in some of the foliage there are a few signs of growth. I don't know when this came in, as this is the first time I've taken it out of the bag, but it gives me a bit of hope. I will continue to try to walk the moisture tight rope and see if it can pull through.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Fingers crossed for you

As you say, lessons learned for sure, next time I would go for wire supports, more air flow and regular misting rather than the bag

 

[pandacular]

Yep, the wire supports from the start would've been key. I think the bag was working well until I decided to water instead of misting it.

 

[MaciekA]

Needle loss will happen after a collection like this no matter what. I would not try to analyze the myriad ways that needles get attacked or reveal their underlying discoloration once the chlorophyll fades out and abscission has happened — it is not worth spraying. I never spray a summer-collected conifer that is merely losing needles due to water disruption. It’s likely to just add to the disruption.