***Harunobu's Satsuki Seeds***

[Harunobu]

Hmm, I did sow some MIharu (sport of Suisen) x Kobai seeds myself, and they did germinate, though maybe at a reduced rate. I have thousands of Suisen x Hekisui seeds, so Suisen seeds in general seem to germinate fine. Maybe there is some Suisen/Miharu x Kobai quirk. I would still say they are delayed then. None at all germinating is strange. If none germinate, and fungus wasn't everywhere, did they die to the peroxide? Maybe their less dark orange colour also means they have a thinner seed coat?

Ah, gnats. I am not sure where they come from anymore. Starting to think now that their eggs may be even in the potting soil/peat. I am picking out so many larvae and killing the flies. But there is always a tray that has many of them. I tried nematodes and mosquito bits, but neither seem to be a magic bullet. See if you can squash them just after lifting the lid, before they fly away. Many of them can't fly or are poor flyers just after they transform into flies. And if they get out alive, start putting yellow sticky traps everywhere.

The larvae will eat away a seedling root, if they happen to run into one. But just a few of them don't seem to be doing any serious damage.

 

[Pitoon]

Update: So a couple days now and their cotyledons are out. Pretty interesting the process of starting azalea seeds.

 

[Harunobu]

Doesn't look too wet anymore. Just keep the lids on and maybe turn the heat mat a bit down. It will take some time before they go into stage 2 and develop their apical tip/first true leaf. They first grow their root down and expand their cotyledons. You could see some first leaf hairs in 3 weeks. In the mean time, there will be more and more germinating.
Once they have true leaves, you could start thinking about very slowly transitioning to no lids.

 

[Pitoon]

Doesn't look too wet anymore. Just keep the lids on and maybe turn the heat mat a bit down. It will take some time before they go into stage 2 and develop their apical tip/first true leaf. They first grow their root down and expand their cotyledons. You could see some first leaf hairs in 3 weeks. In the mean time, there will be more and more germinating.
Once they have true leaves, you could start thinking about very slowly transitioning to no lids.

I didn't spray the sphagnum moss for about 3 days now that's why it looks a little drier. Also I'm not using any heat mat, just the light from above is creating the heat inside the lids.

If I could go back in time I would have finely ground down the sphagnum moss to use as the top dressing. I bought a cheap small food processor from Walmart for the next time. I think it's going to be a pain to separate them with the moss as is.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi all,
Just tagging @fredman here, as I sent him some of @Harunobu seed and he might have results by now.

 

[Harunobu]

So while I have many many seed trays that are doing very well, I noticed some that have some issues.

First, my improvised recycled tray. Only a thin layer of soil, and an opaque plastic bag:

These are yellowish pale green, and a bit stagnant. They are not healthy and vigorous.
Three things that may cause this:
1) Leaves get wet because of sagging plastic bag under weight of condensation droplets
2) Soil layer is too thin and the roots struggle for some reason
3) Opaque plastic doesn't let through enough light.

Not sure which of these it is. But from now on, I use seed trays with proper lids or plastic pots with transparent plastic. And I will create at least 4cm of peat/perlite mix on the bottom.

A second and quite peculiar issue I see is two different types of morphological that are both a bit off, and in an opposite way. And they occur clustered by position:



In the center of the above tray the seedlings have small dark leaves. But around the edges the leaves are much larger and a pale green colour. It seems both morphologies are abnormal.

I dont quite get how these seedlings have an opposite trend and while this is based on position in the tray. I suspect it could have something to do with the tray being crowded, or it being small. And maybe the thickness of the sphagnum layer on which they were sowed. And possibly also a lack of light?
The pale green leaves are a bit similar to how all seedlings appear in the first case. The small dark leaves might be caused by being crowded and not having enough light.
But I have other trays that are very crowded and where all seedlings are perfectly normal.

In fact, this tray is very crowded:


But not so many tall growing seedlings with small dark leaves. And no pale leaves.
Some leaf tips are burned. I am quite sure this is because I pulled loose and transplanted some seedlings from this tray and moved them to a new tray with more space. And this loosened and exposed the roots of some seedlings. I think that causes the leaf tips to burn.



It is also quite hard to see differences between seedlings. Which are the strong growers? They are all so similar. But I have to somehow select out more above average seedlings from this tray. But not quite sure where to keep all of these. I almost ran out of space. And in this tray, all seedlings look really good (except those that got burned of course).

 

[Pitoon]

For those of you that may have an infestation of fungus gnats.......this video may be helpfull.

 

[Harunobu]

I actually tried both. Neither are magic bullets. I like yellow sticky traps, because that shows an unequivocal kill. But that only kills them after the larva stage.

Between the nematodes and the mosquito bites/Bt toxin, only with the nematodes it seems I saw slowed down diseased larva.
Everyday, I pick out a whole bunch of larva. I am slowing winning the fight, though. I think the larva do eat the roots, after the early stage a few of them don't do any noticeable damage.
If they get out of control very early on though, they may.

They breed like crazy and are super annoying.

 

[Harunobu]

I liked this video, because it has closeup footage of the larva. Helps people recognize them:

 

[Arlithrien]

I actually tried both. Neither are magic bullets. I like yellow sticky traps, because that shows an unequivocal kill. But that only kills them after the larva stage.

Between the nematodes and the mosquito bites/Bt toxin, only with the nematodes it seems I saw slowed down diseased larva.
Everyday, I pick out a whole bunch of larva. I am slowing winning the fight, though. I think the larva do eat the roots, after the early stage a few of them don't do any noticeable damage.
If they get out of control very early on though, they may.

They breed like crazy and are super annoying.

Mosquito bits worked well for me. I saturated the bits in my bottom watering tray before submerging the flat in it.

 

[Harunobu]

I have a few in a water bottle I always use. And one tray that had a lot I put quite a few bits everywhere. They could definitey be having an effect. They are declining and they are being treated with mosquito bits. It is just that a week later, I still had many healthy larva crawling around.

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi all,
Here is a few photos of my dismal first efforts.

Unsure if these are good enough quality to look close up. There’s a few still germinating I think.
Charles

 

[Harunobu]

Looks like the seedlings that I can see are doing fine. Yeah, the peat gets dirty. It compacts and algae starts to grow on it. Not sure if that is actually an issue. May just look unhealthy.
But these seem 3 weeks or so old. Maybe 4 weeks, but I can't see because of the size. The ones that germinted initially should have a true leaf now (but I think you said those died).

 

[JBP_85]

This is next level stuff guys. Thanks for posting this. It's really enlightening for noobs like me.

 

[Pitoon]

Quick update: The seedlings are growing well. No more issues with mold/fungus. Just fungus gnats now in the media. I ordered the nematodes to help battle them.

 

[Harunobu]

My guess is the bottom tray are the Kobai ones. Correct?

 

[Pitoon]

My guess is the bottom tray are the Kobai ones. Correct?

Honestly not sure, I just opened the lids and took the pics. I know that one tray that had the most fungus/mold that didn't show any germination now has two seeds that sprouted. You mentioned that was the best cross of the seeds you sent me, right?

 

[Harunobu]

Ah, good to know some of those are also germinating. No one knows for sure what the 'best cross' is, of course. But Suisen and Kobai are both really popular parents, and pretty different from each other. So it has all the potential. I have some good feelings about that cross. Between open pollinated seeds from my own seedling where I lost the label (MK3x?), and a cross between two very famous satsuki (Suisen x Kobai, uxKo), I'd prefer the latter.

 

[Kadebe]

deleted

 

[Harunobu]

This Girard's Fuchsia x Hakusen tray was getting too crowded:




So I pulled out quite a few and transplanted them to a fresh potting soil/peat-perlite filled tray:


It is quite manageable to just pull on them with your fingers and pull them upwards while using a toothpick to loosen the area around the roots, untangling some of the peat fibers and trying to follow the root down. Yes, some roots snap. In a previous tray, I had some leaf tips burn. So now I keep the transplants in the dark and quite moist for a bit, before moving them back into the lighted area.

I tried to find the 'best' seedlings to transplant, but honestly it is hard to judge them. The fastest growing ones usually seem to grow faster because they have more space. Not because of genes.
Girard's Fuchsia has no satsuki blood at all, so it is a bit surprising that the seedlings all look so similar.



Taking these out barely made a dent in the original overcrowded tray, though.

Pretty good progress since November 23:

https://www.bonsainut.com/attachments/1606121084581-png.341032/

These are now 77 days (11 weeks) old.