GSBF Workshops for Relative Beginners

[MaverickLancer]

So the time is almost here to register for the GSBF convention and I've had my eye on a few workshops. I'd love to actively participate with one of the workshop trees, but I've heard some people say that these convention workshops are incredibly fast paced and "no place for a beginner". Since I'm only in my first year, am I really better off as a silent observer?

 

[lordy]

At the ABS Symposium I recently attended, there were numerous workshops and lectures and they were geared for a variety of experience levels. Maybe Smoke can be of some assistance with that crowd. Here on the right coast is a different game than where you are. But the instructors in many of the workshops are really just giving design ideas and not really teaching, per se. This happened to a guy in my club recently. He really isnt sure why he was told to do certain things, so maybe the less expensive route for you would be to audit the workshop if possible, or find a topic that you have a handle on. Look for topics like 'wiring' or 'soil dynamics' so you get info that is broader in scope and can be applied to all your trees and will give you a better base for the future.

 

[michaelj]

Based on my experience at exactly one GSBF convention (but a recent one, and as a beginner): they vary. Most, however, seemed to me, as a beginner in 2013, to move pretty quickly, especially if one wants to get the most out of them. Some of them appeared to let people move at a slower pace and be fine, others, I'm quite sure I'd have felt completely lost. They come with nice material, so you wouldn't be completely wasting your money, but you might get a lot less out of it than someone with a little more experience. At the 2013 convention, I went the silent observer route and had no regrets. Plus, you might find it enjoyable to bounce from workshop to workshop. People come and go throughout the workshop, and there's a good chance that there will never be a time when there aren't at least two simultaneous workshops you'd love to see. For example, on Saturday morning, I'm going to want to see more than one workshop, even though it means I won't be working a tree at either. But perhaps most importantly, if you've never been, your expectations might be different from what you get. After you have experienced one, you'll better know what to expect and you'll be more certain that your workshop experience will be what you expected.

 

[Smoke]

I have been to so many GSBF conventions I have lost count. I looked at the workshops on the GSBF site and found that the best deal will be on Thursday with two teachers providing their own material.
First is Bill Castellon. Excellent teacher, easy going and will easily work with beginners. It is a workshop with other participants so don't expect to get a full teaching all for yourself, but you will get what you need to make it through the class with a decent tree. Workshop is $145.00 and there is a picture of the trees on the website

http://www.gsbfconvention.org/workshop.html

The other workshop is also on Thursday with Peter Macaseib, he is on this forum and goes by Maria Kapra. Personal friend of mine and an excellent teacher. I have never worked with Peter with him as a teacher, but I know his personality and he will make sure everyone with a passion for bonsai will not have a bad experience. There is also a picture of his trees and they are exceptional for the price, some trunks look to be 3 inches across and about 8 inches tall. His trident maple workshop is $250.00 and well worth the price.

As far as the rest of the workshops I was not impressed and a major reason why I don't do workshops at conventions anymore. David Nguy's workshop with California juniper looks good and there are a few trees in there that I would like to tackle. His workshop is variable priced at $240, $365, $490. David will expect more advanced students with carving and styling experience for this workshop but it looks like good value.

Silent observer is cool, though the info comes fairly fast and you can't ask questions if you don't understand something. Watching the demos is good since they will have a narrator which will give instructions as well as the artists using the mic once and a while explaining why he is doing something.

The best tool at the convention is to spend as much time in the display room as possible. If you go to the convention for multiple days divide your viewing experience into a few days. Use the first day to take it all in and write down half a dozen that trip your trigger. Come back the next day or several hours later when you won't be overwhelmed by the trees and study the 6 you pick out. Pay attention to the trunk, is it scarred or blemish free, does it exit the soil at an angle or come straight out like a telephone pole? Look at the nebari, is it well distributed or is there some missing in the back or a bulge there? Get down on your knees and check out the structure. Are the branches wired or not, do the wiggle back and fourth, up and down or are they straight? Write down the things that you find make the tree so pleasing to you. Its overall shape, health, conifer or hardwood, and size. Many people are drawn to smaller size tree while others are drawn to massive trees, which are more expensive (pots, soil, and starting material.)

Hope that helps.

 

[MaverickLancer]

I have been to so many GSBF conventions I have lost count. I looked at the workshops on the GSBF site and found that the best deal will be on Thursday with two teachers providing their own material.
First is Bill Castellon. Excellent teacher, easy going and will easily work with beginners. It is a workshop with other participants so don't expect to get a full teaching all for yourself, but you will get what you need to make it through the class with a decent tree. Workshop is $145.00 and there is a picture of the trees on the website

http://www.gsbfconvention.org/workshop.html

The other workshop is also on Thursday with Peter Macaseib, he is on this forum and goes by Maria Kapra. Personal friend of mine and an excellent teacher. I have never worked with Peter with him as a teacher, but I know his personality and he will make sure everyone with a passion for bonsai will not have a bad experience. There is also a picture of his trees and they are exceptional for the price, some trunks look to be 3 inches across and about 8 inches tall. His trident maple workshop is $250.00 and well worth the price.

As far as the rest of the workshops I was not impressed and a major reason why I don't do workshops at conventions anymore. David Nguy's workshop with California juniper looks good and there are a few trees in there that I would like to tackle. His workshop is variable priced at $240, $365, $490. David will expect more advanced students with carving and styling experience for this workshop but it looks like good value.

Silent observer is cool, though the info comes fairly fast and you can't ask questions if you don't understand something. Watching the demos is good since they will have a narrator which will give instructions as well as the artists using the mic once and a while explaining why he is doing something.

The best tool at the convention is to spend as much time in the display room as possible. If you go to the convention for multiple days divide your viewing experience into a few days. Use the first day to take it all in and write down half a dozen that trip your trigger. Come back the next day or several hours later when you won't be overwhelmed by the trees and study the 6 you pick out. Pay attention to the trunk, is it scarred or blemish free, does it exit the soil at an angle or come straight out like a telephone pole? Look at the nebari, is it well distributed or is there some missing in the back or a bulge there? Get down on your knees and check out the structure. Are the branches wired or not, do the wiggle back and fourth, up and down or are they straight? Write down the things that you find make the tree so pleasing to you. Its overall shape, health, conifer or hardwood, and size. Many people are drawn to smaller size tree while others are drawn to massive trees, which are more expensive (pots, soil, and starting material.)

Hope that helps.

This is exactly the type of input I was looking for. The two workshops that really caught my eye were Bill's pine and Martha Choy's prostrata juniper. Both had interesting looking example trees. They are also more in my current price range. Bill seems like a good option from how you describe, seeing as how I havent had a lot of practice with pines. I liked Martha's pictures, but have never heard of her work.

I recently met Peter Macseib at the OC bonsai club and may start learning under him in the next couple of months. He gave some awesome advice on my current trees. I like maples, but have always heard that they're hell to keep in southern california weather. But I'm sure he'll give some good pointers on that.

I also met David Nguy recently. He gave some great advice but also cautioned me to approach California Junipers only when I had a real grasp on the basics.

I'll definitely be there for at least two days to really take in the full experience. Are the critiques done publicly? I feel that could be a great opportunity and a way to further develop an eye for aesthetics.

 

[Smoke]

The critiques are a paid event and you have to sign up for them during registration. They fill up fast. Bonsai is a small tight group and no expert wants to be the guy who blasted some guys tree and allows bad stuff about that expert to spread like wildfire. In other words you will hear how something is good, really good or very unique. The trees the experts do not fancy will just be passed by. Again, this is from experience walking with greats like Kimura, Senji Suzuki, Walter Pall, Peter Adams, Kathy Shaner, Peter Warren, Ryan Neil, Kunio Kobayashi and Michael Hagadorn to name those I can remember.

Those prostratas look good but they are very difficult material for a beginner. This is the kind of material you see at a Joshua Roth new talent contest. She will not have the time for a beginner to do justice to this material. You will have to be an ace at seeing the tree and have the ability to get it there. That will be done thru lots of branch reduction, wire and shaping.

 

[armetisius]

This is exactly the type of input I was looking for. The two workshops t. . .
I recently met Peter Macseib at the OC bonsai club and may start learning under him in the next couple of months. He gave some awesome advice on my current trees. I like maples, but have always heard that they're hell to keep in southern california weather. But I'm sure he'll give some good pointers on that.
I also met David Nguy recently. He gave some great advice but also cautioned me to approach California Junipers only when I had a real grasp on the basics. . .

Maverick, I can remember when you joined the board, not that long ago, and
recall reading the advice of "join a club" more than once directed to you. But
in the short exposure you have had you have managed to met some very "helpful"
personalities/instructors/mentors and you have a con conveniently coming along.
Go planning to meet anyone not "actively moving"; network; take business cards
where available; act like the kid in a candy store that you will feel like. But don't
you think, given your stated budget, that the "silent observer status" would serve
your needs better? You would have the ability to see what is happening and
"how its done" [with minimal investment] allowing you to leave "the fair" with
something that is GOING to "catch your eye" in the vendor area. Trust me it will.
(I still regret a certain deciduous azalea I did not purchase years ago at a nursery
trade show.) Going this route you learn; you have more budget for something
you may never have available to you again [that one particular tree]; and next year,
when you have had time to get a good solid handle on things--thru your club
participation--you will more fully realize more favorable results for your investment.
After all its not like there won't be another con. And wouldn't you enjoy it more when you
have gained more "hands on" work and development confidence/ability that
really can only be done independently/one-on-one. Just my take on it and suggested
course of action.

 

[coh]

I've done "silent observer" a couple of times and have to say, you can learn a lot. You basically get to follow the instructor around and see what they are doing with a whole bunch of trees, what they are advising people style-wise, techniques they are teaching, etc. Usually (at least in my experience), the "silent" modifier doesn't mean you can't ask questions, it just means that you are not supposed to dominate the workshop. Perhaps that varies from workshop to workshop and instructor to instructor.

Mine have been with Kathy Shaner and Hiro Yamaji, and I'd strongly recommend both if you get the chance.

 

[michaelj]

The critiques are a ticketed event, as are the seminars. All of those events - critiques and seminars - are $35 each (Kathy Shaner's seminar is a 2-session deal and therefore is $70).

Here's what your general registration gets you:

http://www.gsbfconvention.org/events.html

Basically, all demos, exhibits, vendor areas, raffles, auctions, round table talks, [at least] one banquet, and silent observer status at all workshops.

On my budget right now, I'm probably going to just do the full registration to save a little cash for the raffles and maybe even the auctions. Although ... I'm considering one of the $100 BYOT workshops. I have an unruly collected California juniper that I might want some advice on.

 

[MaverickLancer]

Maverick, I can remember when you joined the board, not that long ago, and
recall reading the advice of "join a club" more than once directed to you. But
in the short exposure you have had you have managed to met some very "helpful"
personalities/instructors/mentors and you have a con conveniently coming along.
Go planning to meet anyone not "actively moving"; network; take business cards
where available; act like the kid in a candy store that you will feel like. But don't
you think, given your stated budget, that the "silent observer status" would serve
your needs better? You would have the ability to see what is happening and
"how its done" [with minimal investment] allowing you to leave "the fair" with
something that is GOING to "catch your eye" in the vendor area. Trust me it will.
(I still regret a certain deciduous azalea I did not purchase years ago at a nursery
trade show.) Going this route you learn; you have more budget for something
you may never have available to you again [that one particular tree]; and next year,
when you have had time to get a good solid handle on things--thru your club
participation--you will more fully realize more favorable results for your investment.
After all its not like there won't be another con. And wouldn't you enjoy it more when you
have gained more "hands on" work and development confidence/ability that
really can only be done independently/one-on-one. Just my take on it and suggested
course of action.

After looking through the workshop schedule and narrowing it all down, I decided that if I did a workshop, it would be Peter Macasieb's maple. With that, I called Peter and he told me exactly what you said - to save my money and use it for things like tools and any interesting trees I come across. The workshops are relatively cramped and fast paced for someone just starting out. I'll likely end up floating between workshops on Saturday (at least I won't have to use a vacation day for the Thursday workshop!!). Over the course of that conversation, I also decided to formally join his class series and will be under his personal tutelage for the next 10 months, which is educationally and financially better than a single four hour session. By the time the next GSBF comes around, I hope to be far enough in my studies to get full value of the workshops.

Thanks for all of the advice and I hope you meet some of you bnuts there!

 

[JudyB]

Wow, that sounds like a much better idea. I wish I had resources like that locally. Isn't it nice when someone tells you the truth.

 

[Smoke]

By the time the next GSBF comes around, I hope to be far enough in my studies to get full value of the workshops.

Your goal should be, that this time next year you don't need the workshops at a GSBF convention.

 

[michaelj]

That is an ambitious goal.

Yeah, it is nice when people tell you the truth. For the most part, I've found bonsai folks to be truth tellers, though.