Grow Lights

[barrosinc]

I have basically no idea about these... most of the posts online are for pot growing and it somehow differs from our needs.

I know giga knows a ton of stuff for his vivariums, maybe he could chime in.

I have been looking around, and basically I need lights to have absolute control over some seedlings that cannot die on me!!! It is hard enough getting them in the first place and second to illuminate some root grafts underneath the foliage of large trees.

So I think we are talking of leds or T5? And then colors... I read blue is for the green and red is for the flowers?

Any tips on documents to read or good tutorials?

 

[Jester217300]

When I started researching grow lights I decided I didn't care about flowers or fruit, only vegetative growth. That ruled out the need for metal lamps and colored lights. I ended up with T5 HO lights and am very happy with them. I've had multiple flushes of growth on tropicals over winter. Easy to use, low maintenance, and cheap. I think LED would be your other option which costs a little less to run but a lot more to buy and maintain. T5 HO run warm but nothing compared to the hot metal halide lamps. LED have little to no heat output associated with running them.

Some people claim that LED offer better growth than T5 HO but I've seen arguments both ways. They both offer some of the best growth for artificial lights so I think it's kind of a wash.

One note.. if you're growing with 100% artificial light when you transition to sunlight if you don't go slowly you will get bad sunburn on sensitive plants. For really young seedlings it may just kill them so make sure to transition them slowly.

 

[barrosinc]

For really young seedlings it may just kill them so make sure to transition them slowly.

good to know

 

[JudyB]

I use these, for both seedlings and trees in the greenhouse. They don't put out excessive heat, and the reflector really helps to up the coverage. They also don't eat you alive on the electric bill.
http://smile.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-F...TF8&qid=1431957674&sr=1-15&keywords=hydrofarm

 

[barrosinc]

I was actually looking at 15W led grow lights for like 12 bucks.... but they have a lot of red, and I want pure blue.

something like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/E27-15W-LED...005&rk=4&rkt=6&mehot=ag&sd=251884952672&rt=nc

 

[Giga]

if your were gonna go with something cheap and ez you'd more want something like this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-E27-Bulb...724?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf9ed8d34

I've done ton a research on plant growth and photosynthetic wavelengths. You need to think about it terms of sunlight and what's in the sunlight that's usable by trees/plants. Throw away the whole, red is for this and blue for that. It's like saying food is to eat and water is to drink, well duh, but you still need them both to survive and thrive. The light I linked above is a cheap and simple light you can use and you'll get growth, not the best but it'll work. I come from a reefing and vivarium background, and, in respect, those hobbies are very far advanced in this aspect of indoor growing. If you think about it, corals still use the sun and they don't put their aquariums outside(mostly), so if you think it can't be done, then smush that thought. It won't be as good as growing in the sun, but if your serious about it and invest in a good indoor setup you can get pretty good results.

If your serious about learning this is a fantastic read http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/352618-led-colors-and-what-they-are-used-for/ though it's tailored tward corals it's still a good base to learn about led light, which is the best right now for growing anything. it's goes into spectrums which is that hole red/blue thing. Those red blue light are still missing spectrums that are vital to the complete spectrum. It's like eating tofu for everything-sure keeps you alive, but still hungry for more(sorry if I just offended you)

anyway I've been growing things indoors for year and having them thrive so yes it can be done-tree's and plants-old pic of one of my vivariums

 

[klosi]

As giga wrote. Most advice you'll get from aquarium and similar hobby departments. As far as T5 goes, I think you have to chage these lights on an annualy basis. It looses some wavelenghts with time.
Led is the way to go I think.

 

[M. Frary]

I've only used metal halides and high pressure sodium. Not for trees. They do put out heat and use energy but they are the best for replicating sunlight. I talked to Jerry Meislik about it at the bonsai show I went to last year. I believe he said he has 9 1000 watt metal halides at his residence. He grows ficus.
Wear sunglasses.

 

[Paradox]

I set up my inside wintering area for my ficus and Brazilian rain trees with 2 four foot long fixtures with 3 32 watt T8 daylight deluxe (6500K) bulbs each for a total of 6 bulbs.

T8 are alot cheaper than T5 bulbs

Not only did my trees survive, but they grew for me and were very happy under these lights.

 

[Giga]

I've only used metal halides and high pressure sodium. Not for trees. They do put out heat and use energy but they are the best for replicating sunlight. I talked to Jerry Meislik about it at the bonsai show I went to last year. I believe he said he has 9 1000 watt metal halides at his residence. He grows ficus.
Wear sunglasses.

not true-led work just as well have you seen the ficus I grew indoors under only 300W of led?

http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/large-ficus-score-need-help-with-id.17738/

 

[klosi]

Halide lightbulbs are massive electricity spenders. They make a strong lights (most lumens you will find probably).
As for t8 lights... They are cheaper then t5 but supposed to have worst light then t5 and should be changed twice every year. At least that's what I've heard. It might be a marketing trick.
I would still focus on led. Some leds are really powerfull and can rpoduce most lumens per watt. For now they are rather expensive (the high efficency ones) but this will change sooner or later.

 

[Paradox]

T

As for t8 lights... They are cheaper then t5 but supposed to have worst light then t5 and should be changed twice every year.

I can only go by the evidence I have. My trees have been under 6 T8 bulbs for 14 or so hours a day for 8 months without a change of bulbs. They are budding out and growing as the temperatures in the basement have gone up the last month or so. They would be fine there year round if I wanted.

As soon as the damn temperatures stay high enough, they are all going outside. If I need to change the bulbs next October as a precaution I am fine with that since they are less than 1/3 to 1/2 the price of T5 bulbs with the same K rating.

I looked at LEDs when I went to make this set up. The ones I found that were adequate were VERY expensive. I also wanted white light not red/pink. The other consideration was the fixtures. The fixture I got was the only one with 3 bulbs and for space reasons I wanted no more than 2 fixtures. The fixture takes T8 not T5. Putting T5 in a T8 fixture could cause problems.

 

[klosi]

I completly understand that. I know, I had a pair of t8 lights myself, for aquarium purposes. Not anymore though... Do you have reflectors or anything like that above those t8? It could enhance the light power dramatically.

 

[Paradox]

I completly understand that. I know, I had a pair of t8 lights myself, for aquarium purposes. Not anymore though... Do you have reflectors or anything like that above those t8? It could enhance the light power dramatically.

The fixtures themselves are metal and the side (underneath) that holds the lights is shiny silver metal which serves as a reflector. That feature is one of the reasons I chose that fixture over another one that was plain grey plastic.

Ive kept aquariums for over 35 years and currently have a thriving fully planted freshwater tank. Aquariums are a bit different because water attenuates light a lot faster than air so you need even brighter light. Same with coral just a different K rating than freshwater plants.

 

[klosi]

That's true. Nice to have an aquarist here So you probably know more about lights then I do.

 

[Kelletw]

Hi I worked in a lightbulb store for a a couple of years. I run T5s for my tropical plants. I also live in a place where we grow medicine. So I have experience with all types of lights,here's something I've learned.
florescence
T8 work and are cheep, produce the least light. T5 HO are the old standard time proving for lots of indoor growing. LEDs vary some are good and some are shit, light out putt per watt can be double florescence but it Varies. The only problem with these is light penetration is not good. Not much like it's past the first set of leafs. That's where MH come in, big toys for big boys, expensive to set up and run but they'll give you results. Also All bulbs loose light output as they age so for best results change your bulbs. Hope this helps and let me know if there's any questions.

 

[Paradox]

I just took this picture of my tropicals under their lights. Most of them have been under these lights since October. The exception is the Brazilain Rain tree in the center front, which I just got from Florida.
Look how green they all are and they are all putting on new growth. You cant tell me these trees are unhappy with this set up.

 

[JudyB]

Lovely BRT!!! Do you have any other pics of it?
I grow under lights in the winter, so know it's possible, and some of my trees seem to put out as much in the winter under lights as outside in summer. The only thing I can see that may be problematic, is the light level low in your canopies seems low. Maybe you need to look at doing a reflective backing on the wall behind them to bounce the light.

 

[Paradox]

Lovely BRT!!! Do you have any other pics of it?
I grow under lights in the winter, so know it's possible, and some of my trees seem to put out as much in the winter under lights as outside in summer. The only thing I can see that may be problematic, is the light level low in your canopies seems low. Maybe you need to look at doing a reflective backing on the wall behind them to bounce the light.

Thanks Judy
I never started a thread on it, but I did post it on page 39 of "the tree thread"
http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/the-tree-thread.10496/page-39

As soon as it gets warm enough at night all of these are going outside but it just hasnt done that yet. Then at some point this summer the 2 BRT I have had the longest are going to get a trim. They are growing like crazy! I am going to let the new one grow a bit and adjust to the northern climate it finds itself in.

The taller (in the back) of my two tiger bark ficus is going to get airlayered soon. Yes the tall guys are a problem. I might have to set up a separate area for the tall vs the shorter trees for the winter.

 

[Hump]

T

I can only go by the evidence I have. My trees have been under 6 T8 bulbs for 14 or so hours a day for 8 months without a change of bulbs. They are budding out and growing as the temperatures in the basement have gone up the last month or so. They would be fine there year round if I wanted.

As soon as the damn temperatures stay high enough, they are all going outside. If I need to change the bulbs next October as a precaution I am fine with that since they are less than 1/3 to 1/2 the price of T5 bulbs with the same K rating.

I looked at LEDs when I went to make this set up. The ones I found that were adequate were VERY expensive. I also wanted white light not red/pink. The other consideration was the fixtures. The fixture I got was the only one with 3 bulbs and for space reasons I wanted no more than 2 fixtures. The fixture takes T8 not T5. Putting T5 in a T8 fixture could cause problems.

I realize this is an old thread, but I wanted to check with you on if your practice has changed much? This is my first winter with bonsai, and I have a couple bougainvillea and a Chinese fringe. I've been researching and researching and RESEARCHING lol and I've found a cpl ideas. Maybe spider farm or the cheaper alternative, BUT Your comment made alot of sense to me. I'm not looking for them to flower over the winter, just keep them satisfied until I can get them back out in warm spring. What's your setup now?