Getting collected trees into a nice pot

[Waltron]

and while yenling is very experienced, and no doubt doing it right, he is not comparing apples to apples, general collecting guidelines and procedures are readily available, but "general" is key there. Every plant, environment, substrate, and transfer conditions are all so unique in this endeavor, general guidelines are just that, general. The collector must identify these things and make crucial decisions on the fly which will be reflected upon later many times, evaluating these crucial decisions, and learning from the is the key part of gaining experience. The lessons are there to be learned, you must identify them, and not let them slip away. It is true with any field, you must not miss the lesson!

 

[mattspinniken]

Here's my suggestions for you

Thanks so much for taking the time to post. I am a big fan of anything you seem to do in Bonsai so its nice to hear from you. I have to say that although I love Larch and WC, I am jealous of the Junipers you have out west, and you have some seriously amazing Yamadori. What you have posted is some really good information for collectors, especially those in your area. I do a few things differently including soil and fertilizer. I use a combination of organic and synthetic fertilizer once per week with a weak dose (weakly weekly) once the tree has shown signs of growing. Do you think it is important to use only organic? I am starting to think this may be the way to go although one issue I have is the fish emulsion brings in all sorts of bugs and birds etc.

Thanks Waltron I agree we are at similar stages and working with the same species. It sounds like you have alot of collections planned for the spring. I just have one idea right now. I have done a lot of scouting but havent found what I am looking for. The search is the fun part anyway. Looking forward to seeing you post your collected stuff this year, are you going to get any Larch or WC? Hopefully we can learn from each other as we go.

 

[Waltron]

Yes I do have quite a few trees marked for collection this year, they are all deciduous however, and I found most of them a while ago, I am by no means an expert, so take my advice for what it is, and by no means let it effect your decisions if you have contradicting ideas or information, especially when it comes to styling. I'll offer one of my favorite quotes "advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all paths may run ill" I just like to offer up my ideas when they come to me, I am by no means trying to persuade you to do this or that. I have some experience and research under my belt with the species I collect, that is all, and it could be that I have misinterpreted much of it, it is a never ending journey.. I dont have any great trees to show off, but I think I will some day, its a long journey learning bonsai. I try to make myself aware and seek out as much information as possible and interpret it the best way I can. I am already beginning to feel that these ramblings have come off as trying to make myself look like I think I am some type of expert setting myself up for easy ridicule. but hey, I can live with it, ill still post them anyway. Mistakes will be made, the aim being that they are new ones. Most of my research is based off trying other peoples ideas, and adapting them. I will say that I bought a bag of that green dream organic fert based soley off the opinions of basically the people selling it,(colin lewis) got high hopes for it, but we will see, just another research project.

you are very right about the search being the fun part, I totally agree with that, although I find most of it fun. Currently I do not have any Larch or WC marked for collection, but I know they are out there, I do have a few good areas which I hope to find some larch worthy of collection, and its very likely I will be adding a couple more to my collection later on in the year, as well as a few other more northerly species I have interest in. I enjoy your posts and have learned from them already, so I hope I can offer that back to you as well.

hey on another note, have you read that long thread on the IBC from Author Joura about the NC collection and his views of bonsai and this naturalistic style? that thread is amazing, some great writing, information, and ideas throughout that have really impacted my philosophy recently in one way or another. I assume you have but if not id suggest going back and taking another look.

 

[yenling83]

Thanks so much for taking the time to post. I am a big fan of anything you seem to do in Bonsai so its nice to hear from you. I have to say that although I love Larch and WC, I am jealous of the Junipers you have out west, and you have some seriously amazing Yamadori. What you have posted is some really good information for collectors, especially those in your area. I do a few things differently including soil and fertilizer. I use a combination of organic and synthetic fertilizer once per week with a weak dose (weakly weekly) once the tree has shown signs of growing. Do you think it is important to use only organic? I am starting to think this may be the way to go although one issue I have is the fish emulsion brings in all sorts of bugs and birds etc.

Thanks Matt, appreciate it man! that tree you posted looks very nice, keep up the good work! Personally with my Bonsai, I use 100% organic. However, I think a little chemical will not hurt anything if used correctly and if there's a chance your missing any micro nutrients, then chemical might be a really good thing. I'd recommend mixing several types of organic to make sure your not missing any micro nutrients. I mix a few of the Dr. Earth fertilizers together which have several organic ingredients and use fish emulsion. I think it's important to think about a Bonsai pot as a Micro environment, why not do everything possible to be perfect in that environment? I think organic helps with making the wood more flexible and less likely to snap. I also like that when using cakes, your trees constantly receiving a small amount of food every time you water. You don't have a chance of chemical burn with organic, and the food is more consistent. For example with slow release chemical fertilizer like Osmocote-on a really hot day you could get a fertilizer dump.

 

[Vance Wood]

I havent tried a colander yet, although everyone keeps talking positively about them. I sort of think they are ugly.

WHAT???? You sound like these old ladies that in looking at houses to buy reject one because they don't like the color of the walls. Did you ever hear of paint?? In this case you only grow a tree in a colander to develop the kind of root system that can be reduced down easily into a bonsai pot. Holy Smokes WTF??

 

[mattspinniken]

WHAT???? You sound like these old ladies that in looking at houses to buy reject one because they don't like the color of the walls. Did you ever hear of paint?? In this case you only grow a tree in a colander to develop the kind of root system that can be reduced down easily into a bonsai pot. Holy Smokes WTF??

Great, now I annoyed one of my favorite Michigan Bonsai artists. I definitely don't mean to imply that other people shouldn't use colanders. One reason I don't use plastic anymore is because my wife said no more plastic junk among the landscaping. If I am being honest, and I found out that using a colander made a serious positive difference there is no way I would not use one. I have had good success with wood so far though.

 

[LanceMac10]

no more plastic junk among the landscaping.

This is more common than you would think.......

 

[mattspinniken]

"advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise, and all paths may run ill" I just like to offer up my ideas when they come to me, I am by no means trying to persuade you to do this or that

Don't worry, I like discussing ideas and nobody knows everything. Also thanks for reminding me about Arthur's post it has been a few years I'm going to revisit that.

 

[Vance Wood]

We

Great, now I annoyed one of my favorite Michigan Bonsai artists. I definitely don't mean to imply that other people shouldn't use colanders. One reason I don't use plastic anymore is because my wife said no more plastic junk among the landscaping. If I am being honest, and I found out that using a colander made a serious positive difference there is no way I would not use one. I have had good success with wood so far though.

Well, wood is fine with screen sides and bottom. That is the configuration that started the whole thing, notice the boxes in my avatar. That is my bonsai training planter. I invented that goodie back in the 80's and have a patent on the thing. Since then everybody has started using pond baskets and colanders. Point being the concept works amazingly well. By the way; you did not annoy me, I was poking fun at you. You ever watch these sell my house programs on the TV? That was the point, these individuals that walk into a house and carp about the color of the living room.

 

[Salcomine]



One reason I don't use plastic anymore is because my wife said no more plastic junk among the landscaping.



 

[Shima]

Now I am starting to think that the smallest possible pot or box is best right after collection as long as I don't need to trim many roots at all during collection.
This one. Soil with no roots will stay wet and lead to problems.

 

[sorce]

This is more common than you would think.......

For some of us....this too!

. I have had good success with wood so far

Which, if used correctly, completely nullifies....

my wife said no more plastic junk among the landscaping.

Matt....
Counter that shit with a Giant Pink Ceramic Flamingo.
It ain't plastic! Lol.

Sorce

 

[mattspinniken]

Well, wood is fine with screen sides and bottom

This sounds like something I am going to try. Maybe I will find a few similar plants and try one in only wood and one with screens and then just watch and see what happens. I am assuming they will need a bit more water.

Another thing that I forgot to mention that has been very helpful for me with all my trees including my collected ones was changing over to watering only with collected rain water. I have seen a huge difference since changing.

 

[M. Frary]

One thing I noticed collecting conifers. They do better in a closed sided container right after collection than ones put into colanders right away. Maybe the drying out too fast thing but ones I put into buckets at time of collection survive better.
Deciduous are way different because the roots can be reduced so much and they bounce right back.
I have zero scientific evidence for my conclusions but it's just what I've experienced in the past.
I also don't barerooted tamaracks at time of collection anymore. I put those right into colanders with the existing field soil.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I havent tried a colander yet, although everyone keeps talking positively about them. I sort of think they are ugly.

NOT everybody. Only a small impressionable fan club.

 

[Vance Wood]

NOT everybody. Only a small impressionable fan club.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, how about giving us some facts to back it up. This seems to indicate that you have had a bad experience with them?

 

[Waltron]

Vance I didn't know you had a patent on that thing, how much do you get for those? I've made a few very similar except instead of window screen sides, I use perforated stainless steel or aluminum.

 

[M. Frary]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, how about giving us some facts to back it up. This seems to indicate that you have had a bad experience with them?

Deaths Vance. Almost all tamaracks I collected last year and put into colanders died. Every pine I collected and put into colanders died. Everything that went into nursery cans lived.
Now,I am digging up larger and larger trees every year and they just barely fit into colanders so maybe that's it but my guess is still too much air if that makes sense.
That bucket that Jack pine is in that you have is what it went into at collection. I had one that was collected the same day,put it into a colander and it's dead.
It could be I'm a little rough but I don't think so. This spring everything but deciduous that I collect goes into a bucket. I talked to Kurt from The Flower Shop last year about the collected tamaracks he has for sale and they all are put into nursery buckets.
We're working out a deal. I take him some collected tamaracks to trade for things I want from him. If they make it this tear he wants a bunch of collected trees. Even Scots pine and Jack pine. He also wants some American elms.
Have you ever been to his place? I'll probably be taking a truckload down in the summer. Feel like taking a road trip to Dundee? Go to Kurt's place and maybe Cabelas if you feel like it. I'll pick you up.

 

[Waltron]

appreciate your honesty Mike, that is valuable information, I collected 3 jack pines, and about 6 tameracks, into felt grow bags, im almost positive they are all still alive. I had a big Hawthorne have a setback from a pond basket too, its not dead but some of it died back. im very leery about using the colanders off the rip anymore and I have specific ideas as to why.

 

[M. Frary]

appreciate your honesty Mike, that is valuable information, I collected 3 jack pines, and about 6 tameracks, into felt grow bags, im almost positive they are all still alive. I had a big Hawthorne have a setback from a pond basket too, its not dead but some of it died back. im very leery about using the colanders off the rip anymore and I have specific ideas as to why.

You,Matt,Vance and I should get together and go collecting sometime. I think Matt lives in Kalkaska so he's is only an hour away.