General comments

[Brian Van Fleet]

Seeds are cheap. Count me in.

One thing I'm curious about is cultivars. Evergreen Gardenworks leads me to believe that there are multiple cultivars of pinus thunbergii (dwarfs: Koto Buki', 'Yatsubusa' and 'Shun sho Matsu', etc. cork bark: Nishiki , hayabusa, etc.). But from what I can tell, the seed vendors seem to just sell "Japanese Black Pine" seeds. Is that typical?

Lots of cultivars, yes. Remember cultivars are not propagated by seed, but by grafting, layering, or tissue culture. There are JBP that have characteristic desirable for bonsai and seeds generally have the characteristics of the parents. They’re often described by the areasthey are from; like Mikawa, Awaji, Shikoku. That’s what you’re looking for. Even still, unless you know the tree those seeds came from, it’s a gamble. Good characteristics include persistent bark, straight needles with deep green needle color, and candles without long necks. Those are hereditary traits that won’t change. The rest you can improve with good technique.

Yatsabusa and Arakawa may be the exception, but they are characteristics too; Arakawa is rough bark, and Yatsabusa means multi-budded, and has thick stems. I was talking to Jonas Dupuich about this contest and he mentioned that those JBP in BT20 are Yatsabusa, and may have something to do with their rapid development. Good luck finding them. Maybe @Djtommy can hook us up...I’m trying to find seed from Shikoku.

 

[Djtommy]

Lots of cultivars, yes. Remember cultivars are not propagated by seed, but by grafting, layering, or tissue culture. There are JBP that have characteristic desirable for bonsai and seeds generally have the characteristics of the parents. They’re often described by the areasthey are from; like Mikawa, Awaji, Shikoku. That’s what you’re looking for. Even still, unless you know the tree those seeds came from, it’s a gamble. Good characteristics include persistent bark, straight needles with deep green needle color, and candles without long necks. Those are hereditary traits that won’t change. The rest you can improve with good technique.

Yatsabusa and Arakawa may be the exception, but they are characteristics too; Arakawa is rough bark, and Yatsabusa means multi-budded, and has thick stems. I was talking to Jonas Dupuich about this contest and he mentioned that those JBP in BT20 are Yatsabusa, and may have something to do with their rapid development. Good luck finding them. Maybe @Djtommy can hook us up...I’m trying to find seed from Shikoku.

I’ll ask once at toujuen if there is any source for specific seeds when I go there, hopefully next weekend. Never looked for seeds myself. No space for that. Kotobuki is also nice variety I think. Mikawa is good for thick bark but not my favorite, they can look old in a short term though.

 

[sparklemotion]

Lots of cultivars, yes. Remember cultivars are not propagated by seed, but by grafting, layering, or tissue culture. There are JBP that have characteristic desirable for bonsai and seeds generally have the characteristics of the parents. They’re often described by the areasthey are from; like Mikawa, Awaji, Shikoku. That’s what you’re looking for.

Thanks! That's something that I never really understood -- this contest is teaching me already!

Let's say I bought a package of 100 seeds from one of the various online vendors. Is it typical that all the seeds would come from one grower/area? Or are tree seeds a commodity where seeds from lots of different growers end up mixed together before packaging?

I like the idea of growing out a bunch of different seeds and identifying the differences. I'm not going to plant more than 200 seeds to start though (probably more like 100 in a 10x20). If buying a packet of 500 from one vendor is likely to be as much "fun" as 5 packets of 100 from multiple vendors, I'd rather save the shipping.

 

[Zaratrusta]

The contest is already closed? I recently read Scott's thread so I wanted to participate.

 

[TyroTinker]

The contest is already closed? I recently read Scott's thread so I wanted to participate.

Where did you read it's closed? Can't start your seeds until January

 

[Victorim]

So what sparked the contest @Bonsai Nut ?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The contest is already closed? I recently read Scott's thread so I wanted to participate.

Contest doesn't "start" until January, officially, but there is no deadline for joining... just a prohibition from using seeds that were started prior to January 1. If you want to start the contest on May 1, 2018, all the more power to you! If you start later you may just not get a full first growing season.

So what sparked the contest @Bonsai Nut ?

The thread titled "Japanese Black Pine Five Years from Seed" or something similar. A lot of good information and posts recently from people who have been trying to push the boundaries about developing JBP as quickly as possible. Plus, the famous article in Bonsai Today #20 that showed an incredible shohin JBP - 6 years from seed.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

i do have an unheated uninsulated garage, if it's -30 c outside it's -30 c inside. it blocks the wind and keeps the snow out though

It doesn't have to be warm. You just have to keep the tree from drying out (ie getting freeze-dried). If you put it in the garage and cover the pot with snow, you'll be fine. Many people overwinter their pines in cold frames, and cover their trees in snow in the cold frame (snow is a great insulator).

In Chicago I used to overwinter my pines in an unheated garage and put snowballs on the soil. When the snowballs would shrink, it was the sign to put on more snowballs. Ice cubes work the same way.

Maybe people who are currently living in cold climates can chime in with how they overwinter their JBP?

 

[theone420]

any suggestions on a place to purchase seeds in the US(im in SoCal)? I think i wanna play

 

[theone420]

I found treeseeds.com thanks

 

[morb]

It doesn't have to be warm. You just have to keep the tree from drying out (ie getting freeze-dried). If you put it in the garage and cover the pot with snow, you'll be fine. Many people overwinter their pines in cold frames, and cover their trees in snow in the cold frame (snow is a great insulator).

In Chicago I used to overwinter my pines in an unheated garage and put snowballs on the soil. When the snowballs would shrink, it was the sign to put on more snowballs. Ice cubes work the same way.

Maybe people who are currently living in cold climates can chime in with how they overwinter their JBP?

thanks for the info. i made myself a .doc to keep info like this in so that i can find it easily.

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

I'm looking to purchase a small amount of seed (maybe 50). There are a number of vendors on amazon, ebay, and other sites (like treeseeds.com mentioned above) that sell small amounts. Anyone have any bad experiences, vendors to avoid because of seeds that don't germinate, etc?

I can mail you 50. Pm your address. i bought like 1500, never gonna use all those.

 

[Fishtank307]

I'm in as well! Already ordered some seeds a while back

 

[AZbonsai]

Hilarious! Only people who do bonsai would sign up for a 6 year contest!

 

[Dav4]

I can mail you 50. Pm your address. i bought like 1500, never gonna use all those.

You're not trying hard enough!!

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

You're not trying hard enough!!

Lol! True.

 

[coh]

I can mail you 50. Pm your address. i bought like 1500, never gonna use all those.

Thank you for the offer! At this point, I'm thinking I'm probably going to pass on this project. I just had to bring all my trees into sheltered locations for this cold blast and that always makes me realize...I already have too many projects and not enough time. If I change my mind, I'll get back to you.

Thanks again,

Chris

 

[sparklemotion]

Hilarious! Only people who do bonsai would sign up for a 6 year contest!

You'd almost have to be some kind of "nut."

 

[Eric Schrader]

Anyone have a preference for a seed source? Seems to be so many to choose from

Best source is a mature landscape tree that obviously has amazing bark characteristics, and ideally a short dense branching structure. Good time to collect cones right now! Perhaps just a bit late but you should still find some I think.

 

[jriddell88]

Ordered some seeds today !