Frozen Top Soil Conifers. Help needed.

[Runstenen]

That’s crazy inflation . What’s the excuse . Since Covid we have inflation worst is food . Excuse is cost delay in shipping . Blah blah . Large food companies have record profits But no where near 1000 percent that’s insane

They blame pipelines from Russia, the war in Ukraine, not enough nuclear plants, not enough wind or water movement … you name it. Sure is strange times

 

[Gabler]

That’s crazy inflation . What’s the excuse . Since Covid we have inflation worst is food . Excuse is cost delay in shipping . Blah blah . Large food companies have record profits But no where near 1000 percent that’s insane

I Googled it, and it seems most sources are blaming Russia for cutting off natural gas exports, though I’m sure it’s more complex than just natural gas shortages.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

You do not subscribe Mirai Live? Ryan uses for trees recently repotted during cold winter weather in unheated greenhouse. Protects roots from cold while not causing false Spring to upper tree.

Ryan also made a statement about Yamadori once . Saying that the best collectors . Use bottom heat to stimulate root growth . During recovery and sometimes there first winter . This perked my interest . As a true Yamadori is a wild tree collected in the mountains . So spring collecting time . Would already be warmer when you came down from elevation . One would think heat not necessary . I’m of course not questioning the practice more I want to try it . PS is it just me that has a pet peeve with the overuse and or incorrect use of the word Yamadori . I don’t speak Japanese but it translates as a wild collected tree from the mountains . So a wild apple I collect from a farmers field or a tree stunted by other means in the forest like a rock pocket tree is not a Yamadori

 

[rockm]

Ryan also made a statement about Yamadori once . Saying that the best collectors . Use bottom heat to stimulate root growth . During recovery and sometimes there first winter . This perked my interest . As a true Yamadori is a wild tree collected in the mountains . So spring collecting time . Would already be warmer when you came down from elevation . One would think heat not necessary . I’m of course not questioning the practice more I want to try it . PS is it just me that has a pet peeve with the overuse and or incorrect use of the word Yamadori . I don’t speak Japanese but it translates as a wild collected tree from the mountains . So a wild apple I collect from a farmers field or a tree stunted by other means in the forest like a rock pocket tree is not a Yamadori

Heat will stimulate root growth on most any tree, or even tropical plant. That is another reason that repotting in spring is more advantageous than fall. I situate all my recently repotted or collected trees in areas where they get at least three hours of direct sun in the spring, primarily to allow the pots and soil to warm up. You can't do that with a fall collected tree in the winter.

And BTW, the term "yamadori" in the West has long (like for the last 30 years) meant "collected," from the natural world and not nursery-sourced. It's been only recently that some are trying to make it exclusive and go crazy when it's used for something other than expensive, exclusive wild-collected Western conifers. Just because it translates in Japanese to "Mountain" collected, doesn't mean it doesn't have other connotations. It does. It's become slang, just like the kanji for tsunami means "port wave" but is used for all tidal waves, or "sake" literally means "alcohol," but is used for a specific Japanese beverage. The kanji for "sushi" mean "official congratulations." You get the idea

 

[Gabler]

PS is it just me that has a pet peeve with the overuse and or incorrect use of the word Yamadori . I don’t speak Japanese but it translates as a wild collected tree from the mountains . So a wild apple I collect from a farmers field or a tree stunted by other means in the forest like a rock pocket tree is not a Yamadori

It’s common for words to take on a broader meaning than originally intended. Case in point, the word “endorse” means “on the back.” It was originally used when signing a document (often a check) on the back. Nowadays, when we talk about celebrity product endorsement, we don‘t mean the celebrity is signing the product on the back. We mean the celebrity is generally approving the product. We reserve the variant spelling “indorse” for when we’re signing a check to negotiate the document. The ”endorse“ spelling comes from Latin. The “indorse” spelling is from French. Similarly, the word “literally” originally meant “as in literature.” It would be used as a synonym for the word “figuratively.” It then took on a new meaning, a synonym for “really“ or “actually.” It has since begun to take on a third meaning in informal use, as it signifies hyperbole.

 

[Runstenen]

Ryan also made a statement about Yamadori once . Saying that the best collectors . Use bottom heat to stimulate root growth . During recovery and sometimes there first winter . This perked my interest . As a true Yamadori is a wild tree collected in the mountains . So spring collecting time . Would already be warmer when you came down from elevation . One would think heat not necessary . I’m of course not questioning the practice more I want to try it . PS is it just me that has a pet peeve with the overuse and or incorrect use of the word Yamadori . I don’t speak Japanese but it translates as a wild collected tree from the mountains . So a wild apple I collect from a farmers field or a tree stunted by other means in the forest like a rock pocket tree is not a Yamadori

Actually both of the Pinus Sylvestris in the frame are wild collected, and this is their first winter in the crates I dont really call them Yamadori with you guys, only wild collected. Yamadori to ME is an older tree that is gnarly, almost a pot ready Bonsai made by mother nature. I just finished Peter Chans ( im a big fan ) book ”Bonsai Masterclass” It contains several pages about collecting in the wild or in gardens etc. Not ONCE do he use the word Yamadori. That bein said, its an easy word to use, and when people call a stump or a seedling Yamadori i know its dug up somewhere in the ground at least.

Heat pads under the Scots Pine crates disabled as instructed Lets hope for the best.
I should have told you they were wild collected first winter speciments in my first post. My bad.
Wish us luck !

 

[Frozentreehugger]

The heat thing makes

Heat will stimulate root growth on most any tree, or even tropical plant. That is another reason that repotting in spring is more advantageous than fall. I situate all my recently repotted or collected trees in areas where they get at least three hours of direct sun in the spring, primarily to allow the pots and soil to warm up. You can't do that with a fall collected tree in the winter.

And BTW, the term "yamadori" in the West has long (like for the last 30 years) meant "collected," from the natural world and not nursery-sourced. It's been only recently that some are trying to make it exclusive and go crazy when it's used for something other than expensive, exclusive wild-collected Western conifers. Just because it translates in Japanese to "Mountain" collected, doesn't mean it doesn't have other connotations. It does. It's become slang, just like the kanji for tsunami means "port wave" but is used for all tidal waves, or "sake" literally means "alcohol," but is used for a specific Japanese beverage. The kanji for "sushi" mean "official congratulations." You get the idea

the heat of course makes sense for root development . Like I said I am interested in trying it . I only collect in spring . Bottom line fall is to little time for recovery before winter May work well in warmer climate . The general thinking on spring collecting has always been . To get roots to at least start to develop before the high heat of summer makes to much demand . For water . But added heat to the roots especially say here in cool spring . Seems a good to idea . And possible in fall before there first winter

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I am aware of and understand the use of the word Yamadori. And how words can take on new definitions . Like I said pet peeve od mine . When you are speaking one language and use a word from another . I feel you should respect the definition in the original language . I preferred the original collected material . Or wild collected tree . I have heard the Japanese only use the word for mountain tree and use other definition for day a forest tree . Or a young tree seems to me if we use there word we should use it correctly . But like I said pet peeve . Just rambling

 

[Runstenen]

This picture of me by a wild pine comes to mind. What do you call it ?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

You do not subscribe Mirai Live? Ryan uses for trees recently repotted during cold winter weather in unheated greenhouse. Protects roots from cold while not causing false Spring to upper tree.

I could see how bottom heat on a large newly repotted tree might make sense if you are in a cold region. I have to be clearer and make sure that people know when I say "I have never used it in the winter for anything other than seedlings and cuttings" that was in Southern California. Even here in North Carolina my trees rarely freeze.

Someone in a FB thread said that i dont need to "mollycoddle" my trees .. LOL ..

Wow that's an old slang phrase that I haven't heard in a long time. I know what it means but it isn't common use.

 

[rockm]

I am aware of and understand the use of the word Yamadori. And how words can take on new definitions . Like I said pet peeve od mine . When you are speaking one language and use a word from another . I feel you should respect the definition in the original language . I preferred the original collected material . Or wild collected tree . I have heard the Japanese only use the word for mountain tree and use other definition for day a forest tree . Or a young tree seems to me if we use there word we should use it correctly . But like I said pet peeve . Just rambling

"When you are speaking one language and use a word from another, I feel you should respect the definition in the original language"

Why? Language evolves because it is refreshed from many sources. Foreign languages are one of those sources. The English language uses all sorts of bastardized foreign words and hammers others into new uses with little "respect" for the word itself. "Cool" doesn't mean not warm, "Flex" usually doesn't mean what you do with your muscles unless you're in a gym, "salty" doesn't mean what's on a pretzel...All are used "correctly" in context, even though proper dictionaries don't include those meanings, at least until the dictionary editors catch up with the actual usage. And if you really want to get into "proper' use of a word. The "proper" use of "yamadori" in ENGLISH has traditionally meant wild collected, at least as far as I've can tell over the last 30 years.

What the Japanese do is what the Japanese do, nothing more. In the west, all bets are off on what the Japanese do. Just as the Japanese bastardize and bend English and other foreign words to their uses. Rigidly adhering to "proper" usage makes things much less interesting and comes off as, well, kinda snobbish.

 

[Runstenen]

I could see how bottom heat on a large newly repotted tree might make sense if you are in a cold region. I have to be clearer and make sure that people know when I say "I have never used it in the winter for anything other than seedlings and cuttings" that was in Southern California. Even here in North Carolina my trees rarely freeze.

I’ll keep an eye on the temp meter. Thanks !

Wow that's an old slang phrase that I haven't heard in a long time. I know what it means but it isn't common use.

"When you are speaking one language and use a word from another, I feel you should respect the definition in the original language"

Why? Language evolves because it is refreshed from many sources. Foreign languages are one of those sources. The English language uses all sorts of bastardized foreign words and hammers others into new uses with little "respect" for the word itself. "Cool" doesn't mean not warm, "Flex" usually doesn't mean what you do with your muscles unless you're in a gym, "salty" doesn't mean what's on a pretzel...All are used "correctly" in context, even though proper dictionaries don't include those meanings, at least until the dictionary editors catch up with the actual usage. And if you really want to get into "proper' use of a word. The "proper" use of "yamadori" in ENGLISH has traditionally meant wild collected, at least as far as I've can tell over the last 30 years.

What the Japanese do is what the Japanese do, nothing more. In the west, all bets are off on what the Japanese do. Just as the Japanese bastardize and bend English and other foreign words to their uses. Rigidly adhering to "proper" usage makes things much less interesting and comes off as, well, kinda snobbish.

Interesting
Though my thread was only meant for me to get solid info on winter care, and im open to all views on that and your expertise
If you want to discuss further about the word Yamadori or so, please start your own thread

 

[rockm]

I’ll keep an eye on the temp meter. Thanks !




Interesting
Though my thread was only meant for me to get solid info on winter care, and im open to all views on that and your expertise
If you want to discuss further about the word Yamadori or so, please start your own thread

Then I rescind the free advice I gave you...

 

[Runstenen]

Then I rescind the free advice I gave you...

I’m grateful for your advice ! It’s after all my own decision in the end

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I’ll keep an eye on the temp meter. Thanks !




Interesting
Though my thread was only meant for me to get solid info on winter care, and im open to all views on that and your expertise
If you want to discuss further about the word Yamadori or so, please start your own thread

Fair enough sorry for hijacking your thread my friend

 

[Runstenen]

Fair enough sorry for hijacking your thread my friend

No worries !
I’m grateful for your input

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Surprised your listed as 7a . Based on your current temp and time of year . That opens up what you can grow . Not sure your interests . Ie like native trees . But Japanese black pine cones to mind . Multitasking flush and rapid growth in climate like yours . . I was going to recommend that since you already have heating mats . You could use them in early spring and later in the fall . If you collect more trees to warm roots and extend the growing season . And or help collected trees recover . But at the cost of electricity there . I’d save my money and buy some nice nursery stock your trees will be fine myself I have a soft spot for Scot’s pine . Under appreciated as bonsai . As a single flush Pine . It’s attributes walk a interesting balance between rugged masculine and feminine finesse .

 

[Runstenen]

-18c Yesterday in the air. And at the same time these digits from :

Conifer coldframe outside
Air inside frame : -8c
Soil by pot/crate bases : +0,3c

Deciduous in the shed
Air & soil : -1 up to +1

 

[Frozentreehugger]

-18c Yesterday in the air. And at the same time these digits from :

Conifer coldframe outside
Air inside frame : -8c
Soil by pot/crate bases : +0,3c

Deciduous in the shed
Air & soil : -1 up to +1

Seems great to me

 

[Runstenen]

My Mame pots in the shed :