Forest from seed contest - gauging interest
- Thread starter Kanorin
- Start date
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
a show winning forest wont happen in 10 years either unless you start with trees that are already 10 or more years old.
The reality is in 6 years, your forests from seed will be nothing more than a collection of small seedlings in a pot. They wont be developed or big enough to even start refining them to look like a forest yet.
I dont generally participate in these contests any more because Ive learned that the time it takes to get any kind of result is usually far beyond the time frame of a contest.
Also, I have enough trees and I dont have time to start another project, nor the bench space for it.
Most, if not all veterans will start a forest from trees that are already 10+ years old, not from seed.
Good luck
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AJL
Chumono
I really think youre over sizing it if youre allowing trees up to 2.5 inches diameter- thats hardly a young sapling!!
You need a level playing field to start the contest .
-I suggest you need to do it by age - I suggest no more than 2 years from date of germination
Also what having about a category for starting trees from cuttings as well? At least you can then control the start date!
leatherback
The Treedeemer
Thing is.. If you set people off on starting something which realistically is not possible in the timeframe set.. Are you helping or hindering people?
In line with that thought..
2 years is very little to develop anything. I would say this is too young still. Maybe 5 years?
I am not sure what understanding people have from forests. But it is more than slapping a few trees together on a slab..
Creating a Larch forest last winter. The most mature trees are several decades old as can be seen from the aging bark. The youngest trees that went ins were 2 years old and < pencil sized.
Bonsaidoorguy
Chumono
Dude, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning? I personally do this because I enjoy it, not because I want my trees to win competitions. I enjoy the contests and the interaction between members with suggestions and information to advance the projects. I get it, you don't want to take up space and time, and probably have super advanced trees already. I'm not trying to be disrespectful.
Good luck.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
No one pissed in my cornflakes. I am trying to interject some reality into the conversation. If you want to learn about developing a forest, starting one from seed isnt going to teach you that.
Too many newbies have unrealistic expectations on what can be accomplished in a short time frame, myself included when I was new.
If you really want to learn more advanced stuff push yourself to work on older, more developed trees, not seedlings. By "more developed", I dont mean "super advanced" or refined. I mean something that already has a trunk and some semblance of branches that will contribute to a future design. You want interaction? Post up some trees you have in development and ask for comments and/or suggestions.
I described a way that this could be a better teaching scenario for making and developing a forest with comments and input over time from more advanced members where you might acutally learn something rather than a contest from seed.
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Bonsaidoorguy
Chumono
I just posted an update on a tree I'm doing for the Christmas tree contest. Ironic. It's nothing much to look at and it's never going to be an award winner, but it's one of the things that I'm working on and it was inspired by the contest. Nothing against the rules about suggestions on where to take the tree, so have you got any? Not everyone here has trees that are advanced in development, let alone refinement. Like I said, I meant no disrespect but your attitude about a contest that obviously people were interested in, was less than positive, in a hobby that should be positive and relaxing. Lighten up my friend.
Kanorin
Omono
For the sapling division - I think I like the 10 years old / 2.5 inches trunk thickness as an upper limit. A tree around this size could be your primary tree, while the rest of your trees might range from 1-8 years old or so. Because it's a contest, there needs to be some kind of limit on the age/size of material, but I'd like to be on the side of permitting people to use a wider rather than more narrow range of options. If you're on a budget, you can make a slightly younger forest in a smaller pot and still make something nice and learn on the way!
For the from seed division - I think there are some good arguments to increase the timespan of the contest a bit. I'd be willing to increase it to a maximum of 8 years for that division.
My goal in organizing this contest is mainly about creating forests, sharing our creations, documenting, and learning from each other. I really don't want to restrict someone from making a great forest by severely limiting the starting material. The nice part about having the two divisions is that there is something that everyone can afford...you can collect some seeds for free or order some in the mail for under $10.
For the from seed division - I think there are some good arguments to increase the timespan of the contest a bit. I'd be willing to increase it to a maximum of 8 years for that division.
My goal in organizing this contest is mainly about creating forests, sharing our creations, documenting, and learning from each other. I really don't want to restrict someone from making a great forest by severely limiting the starting material. The nice part about having the two divisions is that there is something that everyone can afford...you can collect some seeds for free or order some in the mail for under $10.
Njyamadori
Chumono
Yes that’s good what you said. When do you think you will be posting the actual contest ?
Kanorin
Omono
I'll finalize it Tomorrow. Then it might take a few days with help from @Bonsai Nut to get it set up in a contest sub-forum, I'd imagine.
Kanorin
Omono
After some help and input from a few members (thank you!), here are the final contest rules
2021 Forest From Seed(ling) 8 (or 6) Year Contest
This will be a contest with two independent divisions, both beginning on December 15th, 2020.
Common Guidelines applying to both divisions
Notes on judging and contest end (applies to both divisions)
Specific rules for the "From Seed Division"
Specific rules for the "Sapling Division"
You can post any questions in this thread or PM me.
2021 Forest From Seed(ling) 8 (or 6) Year Contest
This will be a contest with two independent divisions, both beginning on December 15th, 2020.
- In the "sapling" division, contestants may begin with trees that are up to 10 years old and the contest will finish on December 31, 2027
- In the "from seed" division, contestants must begin with seeds and the contest will finish on December 31, 2029
Common Guidelines applying to both divisions
- Contestants may participate in one or both divisions, but each planting may only belong to a single division
- Contestants may start as many plantings as they like, but must choose one to submit for final judging per division
- Any species of plant are allowed
- You can mix species within a single planting if you like
- There must be at least four individual plants in the final planting. A clump (one plant with multiple trunks) is ok to include within your planting, but each clump only counts as one plant. There is no maximum number of individuals per planting
- You may move, add, or subtract trees to your planting at any time, but they must comply with the rules of the division (see more in division specific rules below)
- You must document the forest at least yearly and also after any re-arrangements or major work (e.g. wiring several trees).
- While late entries are permitted, a thread with pictures must have begun at least 2 years prior to that particular division's end date in order to be in the running for voting. Basically, I don't want to see a planting show up for final judging in the last year that we have never seen before.
- While the contest is running, plants may be grown however you please (in ground, in pots, whatever). By December 31st of the year that the contest ends (2027/2029), you must submit up to three photographs (could be different angles or differently zoomed or even different seasons) of your forest in some form of container/slab/rock/pot. At least one of these photos must be from the final year of the contest for that planting.
Notes on judging and contest end (applies to both divisions)
10. Voting will take place over ~ 2 weeks in January following each division's end. Roughly from January 8th-22nd
11. Stands, companion plants, and/or moss are not necessary to include in the final pictures, but are encouraged.
12. "Most pleasing forest" winner (1 per division) will be determined by popular vote. I will try to either find some prizes or will be happy to pay shipping to send out prizes if people have something that they'd like to donate.
13. There will also be a vote for "Most pleasing unconventional forest" (1 per division), but there might not be prizes for the winners here. "Most pleasing unconventional forest" is up to the voter to decide what that means...but some things that might qualify include mixed-species plantings, uncommon species for forest plantings, a unique use of a container.
14. There will also be a vote for "Best documentation of their forest's progression" (1 per division), but there might not be prizes for the winners here.
15. It is possible to win 2 or all of "Most pleasing forest," "Most pleasing unconventional forest," and "Best documentation of their forest's progression" within a division.
16. This contest is mainly about learning, teaching, and sharing our forest plantings with each other. Keep your expectations low and assume that any prizes earned will be inexpensive...we'll see what I am able to find for it over the next few years. The main rewards should be knowledge, community support, a few celebratory GIFs, and maybe even a great forest or two for your bench.
Specific rules for the "From Seed Division"
A. You must take a picture of your future forest in seed form or seeds in tray form on or after December 15th, 2020. If you already sew them in the ground or a flat, that's ok, but include a photo of that space pre-germination.
B. You may begin the process of germinating your seeds on or after December 15th, 2020 - after you have taken your first picture (A). This is defined as bringing the seeds up to germination temperature AND putting them into some kind of moist substrate that they can grow in.
C. You may add additional seedlings to your forest at future timepoints, but these seedlings must have been either germinated from seed in 2021 or later -OR- you may also use cuttings/layers from a parent tree that was germinated in year 2021 or later.
D. You may begin multiple forests and document each within their own thread, but you must choose one planting to submit for the final judging.
E. Entitle your threads, "From Seed Division: ____"(include your username and then species or whatever else you would like to include to describe your thread)
F. You must submit up to three photos for final judging by December 31st, 2029. Judging of compositions from this division will take place during the second week of January 2030 and will have a greater focus on the arrangement and potential of the forest rather than maturity.
Specific rules for the "Sapling Division"
G. You may not use a forest that you have already assembled prior to December 15th, 2020.
H. You may use trees that you already own or that you collect, but they must comply with the other guidelines
I. In 2021 (or at the point that that particular plant enters the contest), all plants used must be less than 10 years old (to the best of your knowledge) and with a maximum trunk caliper (per individual plant or clump) of 2.5 inches (6.35 cm)
J. You must take a picture of your saplings un-assembled (either in separate containers or bare-rooted or separately growing in the ground) at some point on or after December 15, 2020.
K. You may add additional saplings to your forest at future timepoints, but these must comply with guideline I (above).
L. You may begin multiple forests and document each within their own thread, but you must choose one planting to submit for the final judging.
M. Entitle your threads, "Sapling Division: _________"(include your username and then species or whatever else you would like to include to describe your thread).
N. You must submit up to three photos by December 31st, 2027 in order to be eligible for final judging. Judging of compositions from this division will take place during the second week of January 2028.
You can post any questions in this thread or PM me.
Kanorin
Omono
I'm going to start a new thread with these finalized rules. So post questions there, not here, lol.
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