For those who have spent $1,000+ on a specimen to develop, when did you take the plunge?

[badatusernames]

The second tree I spent over $1000 for. Never owned a Rocky Mountain Juniper before this. Was told not to because I would kill it. Purchased it in 2018.
Here is the thread about the tree on this forum. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/rocky-mountain-juniper-progression.40169/

I prefer collected material over nursery-grown trees. I think the reason that is, is because you just clean and place the branches you have. You remove some or a lot, but you have what you need. I feel with nursery material, you have to grow everything. It takes more time and planning.


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I think you're on to something

Yamadori (and well developed material) does seem to take a lot of the pain out of achieving certain results. I feel like it's the spectrum that counts for me, though, I seem to like the whole range. I was just stressing out about some cheap natal plum like it was a more expensive tree, it kinda doesn't matter, they all need something and it's all kind of neat.

 

[leatherback]

I think you're on to something

Yamadori (and well developed material) does seem to take a lot of the pain out of achieving certain results. I feel like it's the spectrum that counts for me, though, I seem to like the whole range. I was just stressing out about some cheap natal plum like it was a more expensive tree, it kinda doesn't matter, they all need something and it's all kind of neat.

Funny. I always expect yamadori to have a much longer lead time, as they often have few branches and foliage far away from the trunk and need to be brought back to health first.

 

[badatusernames]

Funny. I always expect yamadori to have a much longer lead time, as they often have few branches and foliage far away from the trunk and need to be brought back to health first.

Admittedly I'm no yamadori expert. I just know that when I watch others work on it, all I see is the shaping, so all that other stuff about getting it to health isn't as mentally connected to it. Plus, I suppose perhaps it is my mistaken impression that the health is the primary concern ahead of wiring, whereas with nursery material you need to worry about health and growing and getting the branches to grow where you want and shaping etc.

I could be totally mistaken.

 

[Shogun610]

To clarify my first response. I’d rather spend money on a yamadori or something that needs several years of development cause I have time. Once I’m at a point I’m confident in my work, I’m definitely sure I’ll grin and bear a high 3- low 4 digit tree.

 

[BobbyLane]

Admittedly I'm no yamadori expert. I just know that when I watch others work on it, all I see is the shaping, so all that other stuff about getting it to health isn't as mentally connected to it. Plus, I suppose perhaps it is my mistaken impression that the health is the primary concern ahead of wiring, whereas with nursery material you need to worry about health and growing and getting the branches to grow where you want and shaping etc.

I could be totally mistaken.

you can find nursery trees with heavy sub trunks and thick branches already in place, nebari too. as you can also find yamadori with similar characteristics. often with yamadori and nursery trees even you may need to cut back hard to get growth closer in. that can be for deciduous or conifers. depends where you shop i guess. take a look at the nursery trees Ryan trains on mirai, he always finds or selects trees with decent growth and often wires/styles/cuts back fairly quickly because everything is there. he often finds conifers with all the branches there too, like some of the spruces and that blue rug juni. choose your material wisely and do not buy just for the sake of buying.

 

[rockm]

Admittedly I'm no yamadori expert. I just know that when I watch others work on it, all I see is the shaping, so all that other stuff about getting it to health isn't as mentally connected to it. Plus, I suppose perhaps it is my mistaken impression that the health is the primary concern ahead of wiring, whereas with nursery material you need to worry about health and growing and getting the branches to grow where you want and shaping etc.

I could be totally mistaken.

you are mostly mistaken. Yamadori is far more than simple shaping. All of the health, growing and getting branches to grow where you want them apply to yamadori as well. Yes, some collected pines have branches where you want and wiring them in place is most of the job. They are the exception (and understanding HOW to wire WHICH branches into place, as opposed to which to remove and/or shorten, etc. is also part of the battle too). Starting with a deciduous stump pulled out of the woods requires all of the factors you have mentioned. Those are stumps--what you are collecting is the bottom 12-24 inches of the wild tree's stump and initial roots, nothing more. Naturally stunted material is very very rare...Most deciduous yamadori have No branches, no roots, etc. You have to know how to get the tree to live and know which new buds to keep, which to remove (and when). Most deciduous yamadori are just big cuttings and nothing more. It can be much the same for alot of collected pines. Understanding how to initialize new branching and ramification close to trunks is crucial.

 

[ShadyStump]

Funny. I always expect yamadori to have a much longer lead time, as they often have few branches and foliage far away from the trunk and need to be brought back to health first.

Admittedly I'm no yamadori expert. I just know that when I watch others work on it, all I see is the shaping, so all that other stuff about getting it to health isn't as mentally connected to it. Plus, I suppose perhaps it is my mistaken impression that the health is the primary concern ahead of wiring, whereas with nursery material you need to worry about health and growing and getting the branches to grow where you want and shaping etc.

I could be totally mistaken.

Seeing how I have all of one tree under my belt that isn't collected or a cutting, I felt like weighing.

The trick with yamadori is the same as everything else in this conversation; there's good material, and less good material, and material you're willing to pay for, and it's all relative to what YOU are personally looking for.
The benefit of yamadori is if you hunt around in the woods long enough and hard enough, you can find something that just needs refinement, or something with a great trunk but awful branches, or whatever you're willing to settle for. If you're not hunting for it yourself though, you're at the mercy of whatever whoever did hunt it was willing to settle for, and then how much money they're willing to settle for.

But bottom line with yamadori, it's whatever you find, and there's no shortage of permutations of the various qualities, so aside from promising a year or two for recovery after collecting (the source of much of my early losses) assume nothing when you hear the word.

 

[BobbyLane]

an example of exceptional deciduous yamadori

there are hundreds of similar yamadori like this coming out of Croatia
if youre lucky to have access to animal grazed yamadori then you can often find branches that have been nibbled on and regrown and nibbled on again.

most often branches are usable, they just need to be cut back.

 

[badatusernames]

you are mostly mistaken. Yamadori is far more than simple shaping. All of the health, growing and getting branches to grow where you want them apply to yamadori as well. Yes, some collected pines have branches where you want and wiring them in place is most of the job. They are the exception (and understanding HOW to wire WHICH branches into place, as opposed to which to remove and/or shorten, etc. is also part of the battle too). Starting with a deciduous stump pulled out of the woods requires all of the factors you have mentioned. Those are stumps--what you are collecting is the bottom 12-24 inches of the wild tree's stump and initial roots, nothing more. Naturally stunted material is very very rare...Most deciduous yamadori have No branches, no roots, etc. You have to know how to get the tree to live and know which new buds to keep, which to remove (and when). Most deciduous yamadori are just big cuttings and nothing more. It can be much the same for alot of collected pines. Understanding how to initialize new branching and ramification close to trunks is crucial.

thanks for correcting! i do want to try it one day…

 

[AnacortesSteve]

Not sure how this relates to the thread at hand. But selling 4 year old pine seedling cuttings for 250-350 feels like ripping people who do not know better off

Obvious you are inexperienced and have not heard of Telperion, maybe you just need a few more years under your belt to make such a comment and not look foolish.

 

[leatherback]

Obvious you are inexperienced and have not heard of Telperion, maybe you just need a few more years under your belt to make such a comment and not look foolish.

You claim to run Telperion farm, even though last year you came here not knowing how to wire?

As for the second half of your comment. I would recommend a mirror.