Five reasons I like shohin.

[edprocoat]

Erb, first off Shohin is 6 to 8 inches ! Secondly if you have any of these easily done, cheaper and faster small trees why not post them to showcase your point? Until then ask any Bonsai practitioner and they will tell you that all your points are so wrong they are almost comical. Sure you can buy any underdeveloped seedling and put it in a small pot, but it will look like a stick in a pot not a Bonsai. Wiring on small branches is extremely time consuming and you have to be very careful with them as any damage can kill the branch and they also snap off easier too. Getting a 6 inch tall tree with good branch ramification and a trunk at least 1 inch thick above some form of nebari is a combination of great skill and determination and some luck to boot. Things that set back a large tree will kill a small one much easier, just your watering and feeding routine is more critical as you are dealing with a far more limited root system, and no need to mention the finger dexterity one needs to properly manipulate a small branch.

ed

 

[Smoke]

I think untill one has a good collection of shohin after many years with a good assortment of pots in a collection and tree of differing species and trunks from 1/2 inch to 3 inches less that 8 inches tall and in a shohin sized pot, then one can speak as to what things cost.

There is nothing cheap about doing shohin correctly, nor does it have to cost an arm and a leg. One can go to a bonsai nursery or convention or even a club sale and find material such as this for $20.00 or $30.00. Nice glazed pot by Shimizu Masakazu will set one back about $45.00. Cool little tree with 1/2 trunk, nice movement, taper and branch structure. Will be better next year after repairs this year from last years snail damage.



One can look and look and probably have a hard time finding a three inch trunked sumo trident that will fit into a pot like this. If you do it will cost several hundred dollars, upwards of three bills at least. Or you can spend 12 years building one like I did. This one too will need some care this year as I lost several branches during the Keppler Snail Scourage of 2014. The signed Yamafusa pot will set you back about $100.00. I can make a pretty killer larger tree for $400.00 too, so money is always the issue.



One does not get into shohin because its cheaper. Thats not the spirit. It takes a mass of dedication to keep trees alive in a cup of soil. Spider mites will ruin a shimpaku in a day where a large tree may be able to buffer the storm. I had many larger trees that were victims of the snails but small twigs were of little consequence while small twigs is all I have on a tree like these above. They grow roots just like a large tree and push leaves just like a 30 inch tall tree. Keeping that all in check is part of the romance of the art of keeping these small jewels.

 

[Adair M]

Erb,

Here are acouple of my shohin. Please point out how these 1) are created in less time 2) less expensive 3) more abundant 4) take less time.

The zelkova gets defoliated 3 times a growing season. It takes an hour just to cut the leaves off each time I do it. Maybe more, I've never timed it.

 

[barrosinc]

Erb,

Here are acouple of my shohin. Please point out how these 1) are created in less time 2) less expensive 3) more abundant 4) take less time.

The zelkova gets defoliated 3 times a growing season. It takes an hour just to cut the leaves off each time I do it. Maybe more, I've never timed it.

Do you really consider it took that black pine the same amount of time than it took your avatar pine? Does it really take the same amount of time to needle pluck, repot, wire?
If I were to make (not that I have the skills) a large pine like that it would take me over 15 years to achieve the taper, on the shohin I bet that time is reduced to 8 (or so I have read from Eric Schrader posts).
If you had to defoliate a zelcova broom tree double the size, it would take you double the time.

The less expensive is a bit discussable as you can find incredibly expensive shohins, but all the way to the best trees the price levels out.

But a shohin size tree can start a lot easier from a boxstore nursery than a large sized tree that will need girth gain as well as all the rest.

It is impossible to say all shohins are cheaper, but as a rule of thumb a shohin needs less years in the ground and will be cheaper unless it has had many many years for refinement. So I believe it isn't odd to find trees for sale that have just had a couple years of refinement.

 

[Adair M]

My avatar tree is probably 50 years old. The Shohin is probably 25. The shohin JBP is incredibly difficult to wire. All done with tweezers. It requires more frequent watering. More frequent repotting.

Shohin trees require more intensive care than larger bonsai. They can dry out faster in hot sun, or wind, are more succeptable to cold damage. If neglected, and they grow leggy, it's far more obvious than on a larger tree.

They are displayed on on stands to allow for close scrutiny. Therefore flaws like scars, wire damage, poor nebari, immature bark are even more apparent than with larger bonsai.

 

[Anthony]

You are so correct, Adair,
just finished watering for the second time a few of the 3" specials. Definitely dry season, and I will be watering again at 4.30 p.m.
Back up to three times a day for the little ones and twice in the morning for the bigger ones, plus another pass at 4,30 p.m.

Cheaper - who thinks about things like that, do you love them or not ?

The smaller ones often have home made clay pots, and that makes them even more special.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Giga]

I've now increase my shohin count, I love a large tree BUT if your fooled by a 6" tree that looks huge, I think this demands as much or more respect

 

[cmeg1]

Here is my favorite tree I have grown myself.That is all I have.
I can only hope it develops properly and looks good and stays small.
It is only 1.5 years at time of picture last November.
I will have to trim back some when it starts to bud and then defoliate like forever I guess.And get some taper.This is one out of twelve I have grow.

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Showin' shohin time?

Field maple mame by jeremy_norbury, on Flickr

Rowan group

09270469 by jeremy_norbury, on Flickr

Common European elm

11083188 by jeremy_norbury, on Flickr

Crabapple

03155054 by jeremy_norbury, on Flickr

 

[Adair M]

Here's my shohin broom before and after winter cut back. We also changed the front a little, so I had to repot it. Sorry, no pic of the new front after repot. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[cmeg1]

Very nice Adair,reminds me just how important it is to trim back for taper!

 

[erb.75]

I would like to point out that I am not attacking shohin bonsai at all. I think it's an asset to be able to grow a bonsai for cheaper/in less time. If you don't agree with that, it's fine. Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about. I am not a bonsai professional, and could be very wrong. All the trees that everyone is posting are nice trees. They take a lot of skill to grow and take many years to get to that point. I have not been doing bonsai long enough to have trees that look that nice. I hope I do have trees that look that nice eventually.

Why did I say shohin is less expensive? why did I say it takes less time?

From everyone I have spoken to, the largest time investment to get from stock material to something that looks like a reasonably good bonsai is trunk development. larger stock material with larger trunks are more expensive in my experience. and they take more time to grow.

you can hide flaws easier in larger bonsai, but that's not the point I was trying to make. If you wanted a perfect bonsai, I still believe that larger bonsai might still take more time because you have more foliage to make perfect. I understand it's hard to make shohin because you can't hide your flaws as easily.

On average, smaller trees are just less expensive than larger trees, regardless of finished bonsai or stock. This isn't a hard and fast rule. Obviously, you can find a wonderful shohin that may sell for $500, but on average big trees sell for more money.

I have based my opinions on talking with other bonsai folk and also from Morten Albek's thoughts. He is the one who first introduced the idea to me that shohin are less expensive and take less time to develop. I like his trees and it seemed to me that he knows what he's doing.

Again, I don't want to make enemies on these threads. I would like to learn. How long did it take most of you (who have trees posted on this forum) to get a decent looking shohin bonsai?

 

[erb.75]

and i AM doing shohin because it's cheaper to acquire material. I don't have the money for the really big bonsai. That's not the ONLY reason I like shohin though, and it's not the MAIN reason either. It's just one reason. I definitely think about the money aspect to this art form. I want to get the best bonsai for the price point that I want to spend. After visiting a couple bonsai nurseries, it's definitely the shohin material that can be purchased for cheaper.

 

[erb.75]

as for the time it takes to develop...what I really mean is # of years....NOT how much care it takes on a day to day basis or how long it takes you to wire the tiny branches...I'm talking about how many years to go from start to bonsai

 

[erb.75]

from Morten's book "Shohin bonsai cost less, take less time to develop, take less space, are easier to move, are less apt to be overwatered, and are a delight to behold. This thorough and beautiful exploration of the art of small bonsai is for experienced bonsai enthusiasts and daring beginners. If you already practice shohin bonsai, it will deepen your understanding. If you don't, now is the time to unlock the secrets of small trees."

 

[Smoke]

Here is a pine I purchased last month for the Shohin Workshop this weekend at Ed Clarks. I'm taking 8 to the workshop to play with. This is when I purchased it.



This is tonite. I love all the shoots coming out of the trunk to play with this weekend. Trunk is 1.75 inches across, six inches tall. $200.00

 

[sorce]

I reckon it depends on where you shop, as far as price goes!

If you go to a regular nursery that sells "bonsai" , the trees are so
half-ass, they only need to price according to size.

If you shop online, it's difficult, or impossible to find the flaws that make them cheaper.

Maybe the cheap ones you find are just that crappy, and the elusive good ones are but proof that it is more difficult!

?

1. They fit on windowsills.
2. Easier to dig, lift, move.
3. It is a greater challenge.
4. The art of the shohin display.
5. The colorful, quirky pots one can use.

Sorce

 

[erb.75]

The plants I was talking about were only selling bonsai, nothing else. You definitely get what you pay for. I'm not saying the trees I saw were perfect, they needed a lot of work. The pine you purchased already has a lot of work put into to (obv.). I would argue that the same species that has that taper, proportions, and plenty of branching all over the place would be more than $200 if it were larger than shohin

 

[erb.75]

I have found pretty much all material to be waaaaaay more expensive online than if you go to a nursery, bonsai specialist or your garden variety

I assume everyone else has the same experience as this? Also, I do agree that the trees that are labelled as "bonsai" from the regular nurseries are mostly just sticks in the dirt

 

[erb.75]

Here is a pine I purchased last month for the Shohin Workshop this weekend at Ed Clarks. I'm taking 8 to the workshop to play with. This is when I purchased it.

View attachment 69624

This is tonite. I love all the shoots coming out of the trunk to play with this weekend. Trunk is 1.75 inches across, six inches tall. $200.00

View attachment 69625

by the way that's a nice tree!