Evolution of Mirai Live

[Patrick K]

An app from the team that can barely livestream their Super Tuesday streams without issue lives up to expectations in launch, there’s a lot of cost in keeping it updated once it actually functions as well.

Playing the little nuggets of two minute videos that show up daily is inaudible, the calendar is half baked and includes nothing for deciduous, just generic pine juniper elongating with “more to come”, continue to pay the monthly subscription until we’re ready.

My pro expires in April and I’ll give it two years before renewing subscription to see if they make it work. Asking people to pay to be beta testers and receive less content than historical is a bold move. Apparent in this thread that plenty of people willing to pay for nothing for a period of time in hopes that it gets there.

Understand personal reasons etc etc but this app isn’t ready to take over the brand that has been built over the last few years. Hope it works out for Ryan and crew but I’m not paying for the development ride, if they get it there I’ll re-up. Good luck

 

[pandacular]

Playing the little nuggets of two minute videos that show up daily is inaudible

brother man, your phones on silent

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Gosh.

Reluctantly have to agree to disagree about launching an unfinished release to users to both @pandacular and @PowerTap responses above.

After all, we are discussing the case of the Mirai products launch ….these aren’t all that complex?

Would one follow the practices quoted above when writing the launch-release-orbit-release payload routine for a rocket?

For the diving computer of a deep sea diver on Nitrox for multiple dives a day for hundreds of repetitive diving days ?

Or are these software designers some how a different breed?

Regretfully Mirai has a history of brilliance in content (Which I love mostly btw), yet being somewhat haphazard in providing library content.

In one example the Mirai creation of a whole new bonsai terminology, coupled with poor key word indexing, (a simple but key task) lead users to hunt endlessly to find content to meet their needs in the library. Bit better now. (Not just their issue, eisen-en has had the same issue)

Wringing the bugs out of a program before launching is as old a practice dating past back in the days of prepping punch card routines for computers. At least I seem to recall our teams doing this?

But those were the days before the “get rich quick on the backs of the customers” ethos that seems to be somewhat pervasive in the software development world nowadays.

Perhaps beta testing with user volunteers and completing the job might be a better way to assure one meets a customer’s expectations?

Yet certainly not to promise alot and then launch buggy, incomplete work on unwary customers, or should I say, guinea pigs to find the flaws in one’s work

But I’m just an age enhanced individual who enjoys paying for a product that delivers as promised.

The jury is still out on this evolutionary phase. I’ll wait and see.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[pandacular]

I think you nailed it on why the agile/iterative approach that @PowerTap are describing is applicable to this case, but not the two applications you described; those are life and death, this app frankly is not.

I remember what my manager told me after a hard day in my first software job: “Nothing we’ll do here will kill any babies.” Basically, the worst case isn’t that bad.

They actually did run a beta test, but there’s a reason that betas have fallen out of fashion in the industry, and that’s because the scale is just never correct and customers have grown accustomed to software getting continuously better. I think this becomes very clear when you’ve seen the other side of “how the sausage is made.”

After all, we are discussing the case of the Mirai products launch ….these aren’t all that complex?

Respectfully, I disagree. A streaming website and a highly interactive app is quite complex, especially for a very small team.

Wringing the bugs out of a program before launching is as old a practice dating past back in the days of prepping punch card routines for computers. At least I seem to recall our teams doing this?

In the days before software updates being released over the air, I would certainly agree. But this model has been adopted globally where feasible as it leads to a better product in less time. Manual testing is challenging, expensive, and error prone. User acceptance/integration testing is much more tractable.

Yet certainly not to promise alot and then launch buggy, incomplete work on unwary customers, or should I say, guinea pigs to find the flaws in one’s work
…
The jury is still out on this evolutionary phase. I’ll wait and see.

I wont disagree here; I think the communication should have been more clear that it’s a work in progress early release. I’m optimistic, because as you say Ryan and team have a track record of polish, and I truly believe that that polish comes best after initial release.

 

[pandacular]

A truism of software development is that if you aren't embarrassed by your first release you waited to long.

I actually found a video I had recorded yesterday of my work’s product from the day we launched, almost exactly 1 year ago. I watched it with a new hire, and actually got flush in the ears and had to explain that it’s a lot better today!

 

[Patrick K]

brother man, your phones on silent

It is but somehow having my ringer on silent only impacts Mirai and not YouTube, Sirius, phone calls or any other app that uses audio? Connecting to an external speaker solves the problem. Does it need to be an issue? Continue on

 

[PowerTap]

There are definitely people who are better at releasing new software than others. And you absolutely take a different approach for life critical systems. But that's why we launched a lot of unscrewed rockets before we put monkeys on them and then put people in them.

It sounds like what we knew was true it still true. Ryan is an incredibly gifted bonsai artist, and he's keeping his head above water running an online training platform and learning to deliver mobile software.

I suspect the fault is more in communicating expectations than in really missing the bar on first release quality.

 

[R0b]

It is but somehow having my ringer on silent only impacts Mirai and not YouTube, Sirius, phone calls or any other app that uses audio? Connecting to an external speaker solves the problem. Does it need to be an issue? Continue on

I figured this out very quickly as I have experienced it before with other digital products.

 

[pandacular]

The Android version is now available.

Mirai Mobile - Apps on Google Play

Your personal bonsai guide, offering timely input to advance your bonsai.

play.google.com

 

[SeanS]

I want to watch/listen to a video once a week (if it interests me, some of the streams just don’t), I really don’t want an app telling me what I should be watching or when I should be unwiring a branch.
I’m out, if the live streams (which aren’t live for me anyway, I’m on the opposite side of the world) are over then I don’t see much point paying anymore.

 

[greenfingersnthumbs]

The Android version is now available.

Mirai Mobile - Apps on Google Play

Your personal bonsai guide, offering timely input to advance your bonsai.

play.google.com

The app has to have the most unintuitive UI I've ever seen.

It also seems to be missing basic functions like being able to search (or even list) the library or access the forum. Awful.

 

[R0b]

The app has to have the most unintuitive UI I've ever seen.

compared to recent versions / continuous changes in Microsoft Office and the amount of money resources in that I would say the Mirai app is perfect

or maybe I am just getting old

 

[pandacular]

This weekend, Mirai Live announced that they would be doing less structured "greenhouse sessions", where it's basically just a camera on Ryan working in the greenhouse or workshop, without the full crew. They seem to be doing these ad-hoc, with notifications from the app. The first one has just started, and he's repotting a broadleaf evergreen--maybe a live oak?

Anyway, I think this is awesome, and definitely a cool thing to watch, at least in the background while working. Definitely lends credence to the team's stated plan of making new content in some way.

actually, Ryan just realized that they were rolling . Now he is giving us background on the tree.

 

[Wood]

I can't decide if this is a really cool window into the way he works or organizing a cameraperson to follow him around is the height of hubris

 

[pandacular]

I can't decide if this is a really cool window into the way he works or organizing a cameraperson to follow him around is the height of hubris

Well, it seems that he is the camera person. Right now he's just grabbed the camera and is showing us random trees he likes in the greenhouse.

 

[Colorado]

Well that is cool, glad to know that they’re still going to be making some new content at least. Will have to check it out!

 

[pandacular]

I watched it for about an hour before having to get back to actual work. I think I'm a fan, as he was interacting with the audience at a similar level to a normal stream, just without the Q&A. Frankly, sometimes I think the Q&A gets in the way by asking the same questions every stream (though many of them ask great questions too) so I'm perfectly happy with these. I also like the vibe a lot, just a live look at whats happening.

 

[chicago1980]

It is an amazing platform, the best bonsai online experience I have participated in. Mirai has put on hundreds of hours of high-quality Bonsai content.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Gosh.

Reluctantly have to agree to disagree about launching an unfinished release to users to both @pandacular and @PowerTap responses above.

After all, we are discussing the case of the Mirai products launch ….these aren’t all that complex?

Would one follow the practices quoted above when writing the launch-release-orbit-release payload routine for a rocket?

For the diving computer of a deep sea diver on Nitrox for multiple dives a day for hundreds of repetitive diving days ?

Or are these software designers some how a different breed?

Regretfully Mirai has a history of brilliance in content (Which I love mostly btw), yet being somewhat haphazard in providing library content.

In one example the Mirai creation of a whole new bonsai terminology, coupled with poor key word indexing, (a simple but key task) lead users to hunt endlessly to find content to meet their needs in the library. Bit better now. (Not just their issue, eisen-en has had the same issue)

Wringing the bugs out of a program before launching is as old a practice dating past back in the days of prepping punch card routines for computers. At least I seem to recall our teams doing this?

But those were the days before the “get rich quick on the backs of the customers” ethos that seems to be somewhat pervasive in the software development world nowadays.

Perhaps beta testing with user volunteers and completing the job might be a better way to assure one meets a customer’s expectations?

Yet certainly not to promise alot and then launch buggy, incomplete work on unwary customers, or should I say, guinea pigs to find the flaws in one’s work

But I’m just an age enhanced individual who enjoys paying for a product that delivers as promised.

The jury is still out on this evolutionary phase. I’ll wait and see.

Cheers
DSD sends

Bonsai Empire launched a similar app.
So there's an app war going to be the first, because once people have set it up with their hundreds of plants, they're unlikely to do this tedious task again.
Unfinished? Unrefined? Sure! But the first!
That's what matters nowadays, we see that in video games too: Ubisoft is a prime example of a company releasing games and making the user the end-tester.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

one of the cornerstone principles of modern software development and release is iterative development, where it has been recognized that releasing an “unfinished” product to customers actually helps you finish it—and find product fit—substantially faster.

You only release software early if you (1) are not competent (2) have an artificial "must hit" date or (3) want to save money by getting your customers to QA it for you. The fact that you are arguing that you should release software early so that you can figure out customer needs(!) is more than a little bass-ackwards.

Iterative development is NOT about releasing unfinished product, and then finishing it on your customer's dime. It's about releasing great software that constantly evolves with the needs of your customers, and with changing technology.

I personally wonder if he has gotten bogged down with content creation and is trying to pivot to something that takes less time, yet generates the same income. If I pay $60 for entertainment software, it better be a good game that gives me 20+ hours of AAA entertainment. If I pay $180 for bonsai content... it better not be a buggy app that tells me when to decandle my JBP.