Evolution of Mirai Live

[Gran_Puma]

It was working fine for me about an hour after they launched. Depending on how it is setup, I'm wondering if servers are getting hit hard at the moment. I noticed it is a very small install on iOS, just under 19 MB.

 

[pandacular]

as a software developer, I hope people are at least a little forgiving of technical stumbles at the start. This kind of launch is always going to be hard.

But then again, you’re paying $18/mo for this app. Logging into a service is not a difficult thing

Totally! I've been there, and it seems that the login issues are resolved, probably just load related. Ryan actually posted something on the forum basically asking folks to calm down a little bit...

I think people may be less forgiving of content issues, but I'm willing to be patient. I'm hoping there is a big update with a bunch of more species, even if they are just falling back on the general care calendars, as the catalog is very limited; or perhaps, they should communicate more broadly that deciduous and tropicals are coming, but are largely absent currently.

 

[PowerTap]

The app seems to be of very minimal value to standard tier users, frankly. I'm still in the wait and see camp, but there is reason to be wary--not least of which because of my experience in software where things are easier said than done.

It is disappointing to hear phrases like "democratizing education" and then charge such a high price for it. I think limiting the app, as @PowerTap mentions, is a purely financial decision. Locking the Academy to pro is also interesting, as it seems that that will be the focus of future content. So is standard just the back library, plus a knee-capped version of the app?

We will see, and I'm still optimistic, though cautiously so. It seems well suited for the beginner with a decent budget, which is pretty much myself, but I have to always consider the price against in person education, of which I have no shortage of options here in the PNW.

To be clear, I don't blame Ryan for trying to run a business where he gets to do Bonsai and doesn't have to travel 40 weeks a year to talk at clubs. He has a small kid and that is super hard as a single parent.

But I'll agree that I'm not going to jump into this at release. First releases are super hard, he should be proud of getting it built, having spent years making the content and the reputation to support people wanting to buy it.

 

[Kanorin]

As an intermediate, I’m definitely a little underwhelmed by the calendar as it stands now. I would have learned a lot from it in my first two years though.

I’m also pretty confident that Mirai will keep adding content and features to this app. They don’t tend to half-ass things. So I’ll reserve my judgement until they’ve had some time to iron out the wrinkles and build upon it. If you are not already a subscriber, I’d recommend people wait on jumping in for now.

I’m also hopeful that they will keep adding a handful of video content to either the app or the library each month…we will see.

 

[WavyGaby]

The app seems to be of very minimal value to standard tier users, frankly. I'm still in the wait and see camp, but there is reason to be wary--not least of which because of my experience in software where things are easier said than done.

It is disappointing to hear phrases like "democratizing education" and then charge such a high price for it. I think limiting the app, as @PowerTap mentions, is a purely financial decision. Locking the Academy to pro is also interesting, as it seems that that will be the focus of future content. So is standard just the back library, plus a knee-capped version of the app?

We will see, and I'm still optimistic, though cautiously so. It seems well suited for the beginner with a decent budget, which is pretty much myself, but I have to always consider the price against in person education, of which I have no shortage of options here in the PNW.

Ryan's terminology and jargon such as this bugs me. So much of what he says could be said with simple terminology yet he chooses the elaborate and wordy descriptions that dont add much value except $$, maybe. Maybe he is an aspiring poet and just having fun . I'm not big on poetry though. For instance:
Cut paste is callus dressing
A pot is a ceramic vessel or geometric round
He made a video over 30 minutes long on how to make chop sticks
The anthropomorphism with his tree named Baker, in the HBO doc was pretty weird too.

So much more but I haven't watched much lately to recall.

 

[littletreefarmer]

Ryan's terminology and jargon such as this bugs me. So much of what he says could be said with simple terminology yet he chooses the elaborate and wordy descriptions that dont add much value except $$, maybe. Maybe he is an aspiring poet and just having fun . I'm not big on poetry though. For instance:
Cut paste is callus dressing
A pot is a ceramic vessel or geometric round
He made a video over 30 minutes long on how to make chop sticks
The anthropomorphism with his tree named Baker, in the HBO doc was pretty weird too.

So much more but I haven't watched much lately to recall.

It seems like you just take issue with Ryan, not the app?

Not to derail the conversation, but is anthropomorphizing a living being which you take care of every day really all that weird? Most of my favorite trees in my collection have names, and I consider them members of my family. Maybe I'm just weird too.

 

[Gaitano]

Today I started the Academy. I completed the Stages of Development lesson. Back to the whiteboard! Such a great and perfect lesson for beginners and an important refresher for intermediate and advanced practitioners alike. The lessons were thorough but not too long. I could pause and take notes. This is how I like to learn. A ten question quiz at the end to make sure you were paying attention and not falling asleep in class.

I added six trees (yes. 6!! I was not limited to five) and I don’t see anywhere where it mentions a limit on the app. The species catalog is still being built so PATIENCE is required. This is a very involved task on their end, it’s not complete but completely usable. And it gives us something to do while our trees are napping. I’m impressed and any apprehension I had going into this was completely unfounded. I should have known better than to second guess the Mirai team. There will be wrinkles to iron out, which will happen in time. Let the dust settle and give the team the time and space to get it done.

 

[giventofly]

The anthropomorphism with his tree named Baker, in the HBO doc was pretty weird too.

Is the documentary out?

And about the topic on hand, I do love the information that Ryan passes on the Live/video streams I never watch them live, but every 3months I subscribe and watch the videos from the previous months, I don't feel I need those kind of things that the app provides so I'm not going to be a user of it

 

[Scriv]

Is the documentary out?

And about the topic on hand, I do love the information that Ryan passes on the Live/video streams I never watch them live, but every 3months I subscribe and watch the videos from the previous months, I don't feel I need those kind of things that the app provides so I'm not going to be a user of it

Won’t the previous livestreams still be available to subscribers? I can still access them now.

I wasn’t under the impression that Ryan and team planned to trash hundreds of hours of produced content just to replace it with 5-8 minute clips on the app.

 

[WavyGaby]

It seems like you just take issue with Ryan, not the app?

Not to derail the conversation, but is anthropomorphizing a living being which you take care of every day really all that weird? Most of my favorite trees in my collection have names, and I consider them members of my family. Maybe I'm just weird too.

To each their own. I suppose we are all weird for posting unsolicited opinions on here, too.

I haven't met Ryan so I try not to judge. I just don't prefer his content due to the reasons above. I guess the weird part was him referring to his training and building of "Baker" as a fight rather than the experience and schooling that lead him to becoming one of the top guys in USA that sels trees for well over $10k. I imagine the interview was done very shortly after the destruction so his emotions must have been touched while discussing the trees.
I acknowledge he is highly skilled in his trade and that I have learned from him.

 

[NateDyk47]

I agree with the majority who seem to be disappointed with the app. I'm currently a Standard Mirai member and was planning to upgrade to Pro to fully utilize the app's functionality. However, with a capacity of 25 trees (unless you pay more), even my noob collection exceeds that.

I've never tuned into the livestreams, but I typically watch them within a week of release. I'll miss them; they're good background noise when I'm doing something monotonous at work. I'll probably keep my Standard membership for now due to the vast library, but I'm hesitant going forward. It sounds like we may lose out on everything except the beginner videos.

 

[BobbyLane]

I agree with the majority who seem to be disappointed with the app. I'm currently a Standard Mirai member and was planning to upgrade to Pro to fully utilize the app's functionality. However, with a capacity of 25 trees (unless you pay more), even my noob collection exceeds that.

I've never tuned into the livestreams, but I typically watch them within a week of release. I'll miss them; they're good background noise when I'm doing something monotonous at work. I'll probably keep my Standard membership for now due to the vast library, but I'm hesitant going forward. It sounds like we may lose out on everything except the beginner videos.

Ive often just had it on in the background while working on or wiring out my own trees. After I watched properly. Is it only me who gets fired up to work on a tree after watching a stream? not just mirai, but im like this after watching Graham potter or Walter pall, etc videos. If this stuff doesnt inspire you.....

 

[pandacular]

I upgraded to pro to give it a shot, and because Mirai amortizing your subscription when you do (so it ended up being like $3 for the rest of my monthly sub), and I’m pretty excited about the app. There will be some bumps with new tech (how the heck do I use the toolbox??) , but i’m pretty optimistic about it. and the pro backlog content doesn’t hurt.

Also, just between us, the limit on trees for standard subscribers is actually 10 if you delete the general care “trees.”

 

[pandacular]

Now that the dust has settled and the app is working well, I'm enjoying it. Currently, it's pretty limited in content, but I trust Ryan when he says more is coming, and he wanted to get it to us early rather than wait until it's "finished"--software is like bonsai, it's never really finished.

Currently, there are only the three conifer general care calendars; no broadleaf calendars, and no species specific calendars (a pro benefit). There are also only two pro courses in the academy, raffia bending and wedge cutting. From what we've been told, I feel that the standard membership is not particularly valuable any longer, as it seems it will be getting very little new content. For now though, the only differences in the app between the tiers are the two advanced courses, so I'll be downgrading back to standard for this coming month.

I do quite like the courses, and the short instructional videos on the calendar are quite good too.

 

[ForrestW]

It does not look like it is yet ready for android-- is this correct or am I missing something?

 

[pandacular]

That's true from what I can tell. It's also not searchable on the public app store. Here's a link:

http://apps.apple.com/us/app/mirai-mobile/id6447142062

 

[R0b]

An important value in the pro-subscription is that you get to ask Ryan advice on your trees and the price for that is low imo. I think that is important to mention here.
On the app, The first courses I took in the video although basic seem very interesting. If the more advanced courses have a similar quality they will be very interesting. I am fully in the give it time camp and still think the overall value of the pro-subscription is good value for money.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Been a pro member for quite some time. Watched many a live stream, library videos and weekend pro content. Mostly outstanding, with a few notable exceptions. Was good with status quo, yet knew this had to end. Unsustainable over the breadth of years Ryan will be around... and not fair to his personal professional development.

Ryan had to step back from teaching classes for a year and then limited classes to all but an experienced cadre for numerous reasons… that was an evolution that made sense for numerous personal and professional reasons. a good thing for him to do imho …and ended being good for the users too.

The jury is still out about this phase.

I can say, if one puts out a software application the users should expect it to be value added and without bugs with complete content…. No excuses. Otherwise the creators are asking a user to implement and troubleshoot their shoddy work.…. While the users other responsibilities are pushed aside. (Sans evolving security issues - which are a whole ‘other story).

In fact, Bonsai Mirai sent (at least to Pro subscribers) a message asking for patience while they work the bugs out of the system. Based upon my experience it’s a signal that the changes Mirai planned, including the app, were launched too soon. Also that Mirai is using the users to troubleshoot their evolution…. which weren’t properly developed, nor thought out with the user in mind. Making users pay for their R&D.

Kind of a Ready Shoot Aim situation.

Frankly at this point it all seems merely another bunch of shiny toys. All of which I’m not sure would move my practice forward and would merely shift my attention away from the work and focused learning that already needs to be done.

Yet, maybe the changes would be of value to new folks at this time?

Again, the jury is still out… and I am very interested to see if these changes actually develop into vehicles that will enhance our ability to be proficient in developing extraordinary trees.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[pandacular]

In fact, Bonsai Mirai sent (at least to Pro subscribers) a message asking for patience while they work the bugs out of the system. Based upon my experience it’s a signal that the changes Mirai planned, including the app, were launched too soon. Also that Mirai is using the users to troubleshoot their evolution…. which weren’t properly developed, nor thought out with the user in mind. Making users pay for their R&D.

It’s definitely true that the app was launched before it was fully complete, but I think that is a good thing. In fact, I’d almost argue that the app was released too polished; one of the cornerstone principles of modern software development and release is iterative development, where it has been recognized that releasing an “unfinished” product to customers actually helps you finish it—and find product fit—substantially faster.

I think the only misstep has been selling the app as basically complete, though even this was somewhat conflicted in the messaging. In the announcement stream, it was sold as the greatest technological advance in bonsai education, but then later was said to be an early release. Aspirationally, I think the former can be true, but it will take time from both users and developers.

If Ryan and the team can continue to make courses using the existing library as a base of content that can be distilled down in a sustainable manner, I believe this will be hugely beneficial.

 

[PowerTap]

A truism of software development is that if you aren't embarrassed by your first release you waited to long. You can never know all the bugs in advance, and you'll always want more content. At some point you just have to put it out, see how people respond and fix the bugs that you didn't anticipate.

Building software is a lot like building a bonsai. I actually wrote about that one time.